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I have an interview coming up here in a

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minute with dr. John Alexander author of

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a new book reality denied and dr. slash

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Colonel John Alexander is an interesting

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guy I'm not really quite sure what to

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make of it we talked for quite a long

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time and we of course covered this new

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book and all about his amazing

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experiences shamanic experiences his

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research into near-death experience and

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remote viewing and all sorts of things

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but I was still trying to figure this

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guy out and near the end of the

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interview he kind of let out this little

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thing about the warrior monk because I

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was like John you know how do you square

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all this stuff in your head this

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interest in spirituality this interest

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in enlightenment and yet this other

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interest in making war this is a green

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beret don't forget this is a green beret

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tour of duty Vietnam tour of duty

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Afghanistan kind of the real deal so I

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really kind of latched on to this idea

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of the warrior monk and was really

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exploring that and trying to understand

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that but before we go there I want to

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return to this topic of the warrior monk

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because I think it's certainly relevant

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to this show but I think it's also

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relevant to some of the larger issues

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regarding exploring consciousness

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extended consciousness and all the

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things we talked about because the idea

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the warrior monk is that you know even

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if you're the most peace-loving

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enlightenment seeking spiritual

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community before long you'll find that

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you need those freaking monks man you

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need someone to protect your [\h__\h]

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because if you don't someone who has

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their own version of their enlightenment

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spiritual peace loving thing is gonna

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come over and kick your ass and take

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your stuff and that's the reality and

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that's still the reality that's our

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political reality that's the number one

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thing we look for government to do is to

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protect our [\h__\h] and

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we can pretend that's not real or were

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past that or the Internet's gonna take

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care of that but the warrior monk says

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no man warrior monk says that's just the

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way it is and that part of it might help

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you understand my approach to this

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interview because before I read his

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latest book reality tonight about all

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the spiritual experiences the one thing

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I knew about John Alexander was that he

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was the guy that denied UFOs but I kept

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reading this book and I'm trying to

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square it with what I guess is for a

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long time then the general overriding

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meme associated with John Alexander

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which is this guy who debates people at

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UFO conferences saying that the

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government doesn't know anything about

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UFOs and if they did I would know that

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they did and I know and they don't what

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is that whole meme all about is that

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something you is that an accurate

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characterization of the way a lot of

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people think of you I it seems to be out

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there and is it true I can't speak to

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what other people think but I don't

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think in particular the recent

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revelations that I can say if it weren't

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there I would know about it

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now wait before we get to some serious

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word parsing which he does you know

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his answer is okay but it doesn't

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capture for those of you who aren't

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familiar with the whole UFO thing it

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doesn't capture how just freaking

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annoying this has been for years and

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years and years I mean let me play this

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next clip for you and it's from of 2011

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I think this UFO conference and here is

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John Alexander again being grilled by

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Danny Sheehan who is can grill people

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he's an attorney he's a really good

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attorney by the way he was the attorney

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if you don't know this for John Mac you

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know the UFO

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abduction researcher Harvard University

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everyone points out I mean he's teaching

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psychology at Harvard and then he gets

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into this UFO abduction thing and he

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goes it's real

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he gets censored by Harvard and Danny

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Shin comes in because John Max no idiot

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he's a really sharp guy because you

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can't censor me for this and he gets Dan

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chin to sit in there in that first

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meeting with with the Harvard guys and

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very quickly they fold their hand and

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let John Mack continue but I digress but

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here is how annoying this has been over

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the years the fact is is that you aren't

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saying I'm trying to find out are you

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willing to agree that just because you

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haven't found it and the people you talk

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to didn't acknowledge it to you then it

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could still well exist oh I say that in

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the book in fact I come up and I say you

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know I base what I have on first-hand

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evidence which i think is broader than

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anybody else because I talked to the

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head or a deputy of all of the lettered

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agencies and all of that which makes it

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your desire and I specifically say could

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I have missed it possible don't think so

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but the point is on all of these

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conspiracies and I have slides you my

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whole thing on how conspiracies work on

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that yeah I was uncommitted for true but

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that's not in that briefing but the

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point here is all of them have been

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found out and alibi to go on its own oh

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I didn't say to not by the journalists

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appointed not by the National Security

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investigators let me give an example

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Glomar Explorer okay we're get too far

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you have to fully appreciate this

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grilling that's going on first notice

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that you know Colonel Alexander says I

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have first-hand knowledge and then he

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goes on to say I talk to these guys and

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these guys and she and points out well

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that isn't really first-hand knowledge

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that second here now that secondary

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knowledge because you're passing along

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with someone already told you but more

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importantly you can sense the

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frustration at the parsing step back

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here is a

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who's saying I've talked to the

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highest-ranking officials in the

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government and there's no UFO program

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they don't know anything about UFOs

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there's there's nothing out there we all

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do it was [\h__\h]

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everybody knew was [\h__\h] but that

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didn't matter

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2017 New York Times and our friend

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Leslie Kane who that's a whole other

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now notice that I titled that slide

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control disclosure question mark and

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it's hard with this show because this

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shows about consciousness and

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spirituality really but and in a minute

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I'll tell you why I think it relates to

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this in a really important profound way

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but just stepping back in dealing with

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the conspiratorial aspect of this again

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you've got to kind of put that hat on

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for a minute and say okay New York Times

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the official record at least for still a

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lot of people not for a lot of other

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people but the New York Times has now

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said okay guys it's real but the point

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is if it's real then it's always been

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real right then it's been real for 50 60

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years it's been real right

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it isn't like they're pretending like

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this is the first or only UFO program

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right so John Alexander you talked

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everyone and they said there's nothing

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right so I said a minute ago that this

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stuff does relate back to skeptic Oh

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does relate back to consciousness

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science or consciousness understanding

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or if you want to put it in spirituality

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so I guess it's fair to ask how how does

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it check out this his wife suddenly

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wants to talk about I'd like to talk

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about entanglement and I'm thinking why

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would you ask us your husband is a PhD

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in physics he's right he run the

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parapsychology the the what they called

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a phenomenology desk at the CIA we would

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ask where does and what people have to

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realize is that when the CIA calls it

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phenomenology that is a hint as to

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what's going on

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it is not UFOs its remote-viewing ghosts

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parapsychology the telepathy it's the

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whole ball of

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because it's all consciousness that's

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the ground of being it's consciousness

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and they know that and that's why when

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the Canadian government document said in

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1950 that mental phenomena may be

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involved the top-secret finian

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government documents a mental phenomena

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may be involved in flying saucers that's

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when they started the MKULTRA stop

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that's when they started all that can

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seem trying to figure out how to

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consciousness work because they had a

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live alien in 1947 that's how the

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Americans knew to tell the Canadians in

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1950 the mental phenomena was involved

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nobody was talking to aliens in 1950 the

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Adamski and Williamson would not come

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forward until a couple days after the

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detonation the hydrogen bomb Betty and

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Barney Hill would not become public

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still in mid 60s

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nobody said they're talking to aliens in

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public at least and so therefore how did

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they know that mental phenomena was

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involved because they had a live alien

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and they knew that the alien talk is

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telepathic and gets in your head and

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they went wow man if we could discover

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how this work and so of course they

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threw every dime they had at

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consciousness trying to figure out how

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this thing worked I'm alone

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that of course is Grant Cameron who's

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been on the show a couple of times I

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think is one of the best UFO researchers

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and let me just say I know this stuff is

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a little bit out there for some people

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for other people who like skeptical it's

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like old hat and for other people like

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skeptical it's like out there like way

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out there aliens they had an alien but

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it's real I mean the Wilbur Smith memo

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that he referenced we did a whole show

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on that it's real it's a document

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released from the Canadian government a

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top-secret document and you know the

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grants research extremely thorough

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researcher he went and were like traced

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can we rely on this document is it real

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does it faked and I'm a totally real

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and as he alludes to there we've usually

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start putting together pieces and I know

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he talks really fast that leads to this

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interest in consciousness that leads to

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MK ULTRA that leads to Stargate remote

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viewing it was in response to what they

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were finding over here that's the the

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connection that grants making and I

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think the connection is undeniable in

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terms of

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how things play out and if it wasn't

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undeniable before go back and we read

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the New York Times and watch that video

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I mean they kind of tried to hide it but

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we all knew this stuff was real but

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let's get back to today's interview with

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John Alexander for a minute

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one of the things I did after the show

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was I talked to my buddies at the crime

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Erica show because they had interviewed

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Grant Cameron and they've done a lot of

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research on this so I got on a video

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chat with Darren and Graham and I asked

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them what I think is I think one of the

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essential questions key questions to be

274
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asked about dr. Alexander you know an

275
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offensive defense yeah

276
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well we in the Western so final final

277
00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:05,160
question before I well there's actually

278
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the big question is at the end is

279
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:09,060
whether I've roped you guys into a

280
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career-ending decision or not but the

281
00:13:18,939 --> 00:13:13,949
the the question before that is is John

282
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think he's you know I I'm not sure that

283
00:13:27,769 --> 00:13:24,959
he is he ground will probably disagree

284
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:27,779
with me but I don't know for some reason

285
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:30,720
I just get the vibe of seeing somebody

286
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:35,130
who's you know maybe misses the Green

287
00:13:54,499 --> 00:13:40,970
Beret days likes a little you know I

288
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,509
mean like he's some [\h__\h] one time and

289
00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:56,639
now you're sort of you know it's like

290
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:00,120
one of those you know what's that old

291
00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:02,910
saying about you know lies where it's

292
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:05,189
you know gets out of hand [\h__\h] quick

293
00:14:08,299 --> 00:14:06,689
I mean we see that happen today all the

294
00:14:09,889 --> 00:14:08,309
time where these guys get and today in

295
00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:09,899
today's world you get burned [\h__\h]

296
00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:14,040
fast but yeah I don't know I tend to

297
00:14:17,389 --> 00:14:15,809
think he's stuck with it he's probably

298
00:14:21,439 --> 00:14:17,399
disinformation agent

299
00:14:24,110 --> 00:14:21,449
I'm skeptical the whole that whole side

300
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:24,120
of the research the whole side the PK

301
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:25,529
all that stuff now I'm kind of

302
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:27,720
to love and the mixes all together with

303
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,050
the MK ULTRA and UFOs and disclosure and

304
00:14:36,619 --> 00:14:33,600
I don't know I wonder if I'm being a MK

305
00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:36,629
ULTRA great now maybe actually were in a

306
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,920
Faraday cage so we should be good you

307
00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:42,480
know it's almost like he's

308
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:45,660
disinformation misinformation by

309
00:14:52,189 --> 00:14:48,290
definition you know so whether he's

310
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:52,199
being exact yeah whether he's being

311
00:14:58,340 --> 00:14:54,930
directed controlled fed the stuff or

312
00:15:01,999 --> 00:14:58,350
whether he's just being allowed to be a

313
00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:02,009
mouthpiece for than this information

314
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,649
just information he's clearly I mean as

315
00:15:08,809 --> 00:15:06,959
we've deconstructed it it's just it

316
00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:08,819
doesn't hold up and not only that he's

317
00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:10,350
probably feeling like his job is being

318
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:11,790
threatened because all these old-school

319
00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:13,529
disinformation guys are just being

320
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,860
replaced with trolls online trolls you

321
00:15:19,699 --> 00:15:18,240
know that's the new battlefield you

322
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:19,709
don't need these guys going on the news

323
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:22,410
anymore you just need a billion [\h__\h]

324
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:25,800
BOTS on Twitter can the warrior monk be

325
00:15:33,439 --> 00:15:30,050
replaced by a billion bots on Twitter I

326
00:15:36,769 --> 00:15:33,449
don't know maybe we'll find out in this

327
00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:36,779
interview with John Alexander who you

328
00:15:42,860 --> 00:15:39,720
know really has written a terrific book

329
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:42,870
reality denied a book that covers a lot

330
00:15:48,199 --> 00:15:45,569
of topics that we touch on in this

331
00:15:49,699 --> 00:15:48,209
including near-death experience research

332
00:15:51,439 --> 00:15:49,709
and his experience and that is

333
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:51,449
experienced with the Stargate program

334
00:15:57,829 --> 00:15:54,000
that I mentioned ago also current news

335
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:57,839
like Tom DeLonge disclosure my lab stuff

336
00:16:04,699 --> 00:16:01,680
which he completely categorically says

337
00:16:06,860 --> 00:16:04,709
is totally not real untrue what else did

338
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:06,870
we talk about we talk about the aviary

339
00:16:12,530 --> 00:16:08,970
and other UFO stuff but we talk about a

340
00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:12,540
lot of non UFO stuff this book is really

341
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:15,420
about the consciousness kind of stuff

342
00:16:21,049 --> 00:16:18,420
that skeptic oh is kind of built on but

343
00:16:23,809 --> 00:16:21,059
I just had to go with the UFO stuff

344
00:16:25,699 --> 00:16:23,819
because you you can't do that you can't

345
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:25,709
do the head fake stuff you can't have a

346
00:16:33,499 --> 00:16:30,089
whole career built on extended

347
00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:33,509
consciousness UFO alien stuff and then

348
00:16:38,569 --> 00:16:35,550
say yeah but now also I want to talk

349
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:38,579
about our shamans and to be fair I mean

350
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:39,360
that the

351
00:16:44,180 --> 00:16:41,610
he answered all the questions he didn't

352
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:44,190
dodge a single question and I commend

353
00:16:51,860 --> 00:16:49,410
him for that I just can't quite figure

354
00:16:53,569 --> 00:16:51,870
him out so before we get to the

355
00:16:54,259 --> 00:16:53,579
interview just a couple of clean up

356
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,269
things you know

357
00:16:59,389 --> 00:16:56,880
last episode I reached out and asked

358
00:17:03,019 --> 00:16:59,399
people if they were interested in

359
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,029
helping the show helping me in any way

360
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:05,520
to reach out to me and it's just been

361
00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:08,459
phenomenal such a cool response so many

362
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,100
awesome people I've met I've talked to

363
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:14,040
I've video chatted with and there's

364
00:17:18,620 --> 00:17:15,900
gonna be some great stuff that comes out

365
00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:18,630
of that great new content and a great

366
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:21,630
little help on doing stuff so oh so so

367
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,130
appreciate that especially just

368
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:25,199
appreciate connecting with you all

369
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:28,410
that's so cool so again if anyone ever

370
00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:30,600
wants to connect with me do it I'm

371
00:17:36,770 --> 00:17:34,440
pretty accessible to send me an email so

372
00:17:39,409 --> 00:17:36,780
I think that'll do it let's get on to

373
00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:39,419
this interview with dr. John Alexander

374
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:44,680
author of the new book reality denied

375
00:17:59,150 --> 00:17:51,240
[Music]

376
00:18:02,360 --> 00:17:59,160
I have an interview coming up here in a

377
00:18:07,460 --> 00:18:02,370
minute with dr. John Alexander author of

378
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:07,470
a new book reality denied and dr. slash

379
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:11,130
Colonel John Alexander is an interesting

380
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:16,770
guy I'm not really quite sure what to

381
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:19,410
make of it we talked for quite a long

382
00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:22,230
time and we of course covered this new

383
00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:24,360
book and all about his amazing

384
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:27,420
experiences shamanic experiences his

385
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:29,690
research into near-death experience and

386
00:18:34,970 --> 00:18:32,450
remote viewing and all sorts of things

387
00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:34,980
but I was still trying to figure this

388
00:18:39,530 --> 00:18:36,870
guy out and near the end of the

389
00:18:41,780 --> 00:18:39,540
interview he kind of let out this little

390
00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:41,790
thing about the warrior monk because I

391
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:43,800
was like John you know how do you square

392
00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:46,559
all this stuff in your head this

393
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:49,830
interest in spirituality this interest

394
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:53,970
in enlightenment and yet this other

395
00:19:00,200 --> 00:18:57,450
interest in making war this is a green

396
00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:00,210
beret don't forget this is a green beret

397
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:03,590
tour of duty Vietnam tour of duty

398
00:19:10,340 --> 00:19:07,440
Afghanistan kind of the real deal so I

399
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:10,350
really kind of latched on to this idea

400
00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:14,640
of the warrior monk and was really

401
00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:16,980
exploring that and trying to understand

402
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:29,429
that what kind of monk are you uh asylum

403
00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:36,210
when I see or death I'm speaking to you

404
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:42,740
okay Jackie Chan's about to whip ass on

405
00:19:49,910 --> 00:19:45,810
some Jetley here in the movie the

406
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,920
forgetting forbidden kingdom but before

407
00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:51,360
we go there I want to return to this

408
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:53,400
topic of the warrior monk because I

409
00:19:57,700 --> 00:19:55,770
think it's certainly relevant to this

410
00:20:01,060 --> 00:19:57,710
show but I think it's also relevant to

411
00:20:03,260 --> 00:20:01,070
some of the larger issues regarding

412
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:03,270
exploring consciousness extended

413
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:04,500
consciousness and all the things we

414
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:06,390
talked about because the idea the

415
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:08,880
warrior monk is that you know even if

416
00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:11,570
you're the most peace-loving

417
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:14,190
enlightenment seeking spiritual

418
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:16,760
community before long you'll find that

419
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:19,890
you need those freaking monks man you

420
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:21,510
need someone to protect your [\h__\h]

421
00:20:25,550 --> 00:20:23,730
because if you don't someone who has

422
00:20:27,410 --> 00:20:25,560
their own version of their enlightenment

423
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:27,420
spiritual peace loving thing is going to

424
00:20:31,550 --> 00:20:29,310
come over and kick your ass and take

425
00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:31,560
your stuff and that's the reality

426
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,990
and that's still the reality that's our

427
00:20:39,470 --> 00:20:35,760
political reality that's the number one

428
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:39,480
thing we look for government to do is to

429
00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:41,850
protect our [\h__\h] and we can pretend

430
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:44,430
that's not real or we're past that or

431
00:20:51,050 --> 00:20:46,290
the Internet's gonna take care of that

432
00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:51,060
but the warrior monk says no man warrior

433
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:54,620
monk says that's just the way it is and

434
00:21:00,830 --> 00:20:57,090
that part of it might help you

435
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:00,840
understand my approach to this interview

436
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:03,180
because before I read his latest book

437
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:05,220
reality denied about all the spiritual

438
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:08,010
experiences the one thing I knew about

439
00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:10,650
John Alexander was that he was the guy

440
00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:15,060
that denied UFOs but I kept reading this

441
00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:17,070
book and I'm trying to square it with

442
00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:20,220
what I guess has for a long time been

443
00:21:27,050 --> 00:21:24,060
the general overriding name associated

444
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:27,060
with John Alexander which is this guy

445
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:30,030
who debates people at UFO conferences

446
00:21:35,060 --> 00:21:32,310
saying that the government doesn't know

447
00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:35,070
anything about UFOs and if they did I

448
00:21:41,030 --> 00:21:37,350
would know that they did and I know and

449
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:41,040
they don't what what is that whole meme

450
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:44,490
all about is that something you is that

451
00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:48,870
an accurate characterization of the way

452
00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:51,270
a lot of people think of you I it seems

453
00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:52,950
to be out there and is it true

454
00:22:00,410 --> 00:21:56,840
I can't speak to what other people think

455
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:00,420
but I don't think particularly the

456
00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:02,910
recent revelations that I can say if it

457
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,070
weren't there I would know about it

458
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:08,280
now wait before we get to some serious

459
00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:12,930
word parsing which he does you know

460
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:15,300
his answer is okay but it doesn't

461
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:18,090
capture for those of you who aren't

462
00:22:23,540 --> 00:22:20,430
familiar with the whole UFO thing it

463
00:22:28,010 --> 00:22:23,550
doesn't capture how just freaking

464
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,020
annoying this has been for years and

465
00:22:35,870 --> 00:22:30,600
years and years I mean let me play this

466
00:22:39,670 --> 00:22:35,880
next clip for you and it's from 2011 I

467
00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:39,680
think this UFO conference and here is

468
00:22:46,670 --> 00:22:42,950
John Alexander again being grilled by

469
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,680
Danny Sheehan who is can grill people

470
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:48,240
because he's an attorney he's a really

471
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:50,370
good attorney by the way he was the

472
00:22:55,940 --> 00:22:53,310
attorney if you don't know this for John

473
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:55,950
Mac you know the UFO abduction

474
00:23:00,200 --> 00:22:58,890
researcher Harvard University everyone

475
00:23:01,610 --> 00:23:00,210
points out I mean he's teaching

476
00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:01,620
psychology at Harvard and then he gets

477
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:03,060
into this UFO abduction thing and he

478
00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:03,840
goes it's real

479
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:07,080
he gets censored by Harvard and Danny

480
00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:10,050
Shin comes in because John Max no idiot

481
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:12,300
he's a really sharp guy because he can't

482
00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:15,300
censor me for this and he gets Dan chin

483
00:23:21,290 --> 00:23:17,640
to sit in there in that first meeting

484
00:23:24,290 --> 00:23:21,300
with with the Harvard guys and very

485
00:23:27,740 --> 00:23:24,300
quickly they fold their hand and let

486
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:27,750
John Mack continue but I digress but

487
00:23:36,130 --> 00:23:31,980
here is how annoying this has been over

488
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:36,140
the years the fact is is that you aren't

489
00:23:42,650 --> 00:23:39,120
saying I'm trying to find out are you

490
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:42,660
willing to agree that just because you

491
00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:44,490
haven't found it and the people you

492
00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:46,980
talked to didn't acknowledge it to you

493
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:50,460
then it could still well exist oh I say

494
00:23:55,310 --> 00:23:53,610
that in the book in fact I come up and I

495
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:55,320
say you know I base what I have on

496
00:24:00,320 --> 00:23:58,320
first-hand evidence which i think is

497
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:00,330
broader than anybody else because I

498
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:01,710
talked to the hand or Jeff

499
00:24:06,430 --> 00:24:03,570
of all of the lettered agencies and all

500
00:24:08,830 --> 00:24:06,440
of that which makes it yours and I

501
00:24:11,269 --> 00:24:08,840
specifically say could I have missed it

502
00:24:13,370 --> 00:24:11,279
possible don't think so

503
00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:13,380
but the point is on all of these

504
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:15,750
conspiracies and I have slides you my

505
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:17,850
whole thing on how conspiracies work on

506
00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:20,640
that yeah I was on committed for true

507
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:23,880
but that's not in that briefing but the

508
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:26,370
point here is all of them have been

509
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:29,010
found out and alibi the gun on its own I

510
00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:30,809
didn't say to not by the journalists

511
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:32,190
appointed not by the national security

512
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:34,110
investigators I mean you have an example

513
00:24:43,519 --> 00:24:40,110
Glomar Explorer ok forget it too far you

514
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:43,529
have to fully appreciate this grilling

515
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:46,289
that's going on first notice that you

516
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,330
know Colonel Alexander says I have

517
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:49,919
first-hand knowledge and then he goes on

518
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:51,450
to say I talked to these guys and these

519
00:24:54,649 --> 00:24:53,279
guys and she and points out well that

520
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:54,659
isn't really first-hand knowledge that

521
00:24:57,529 --> 00:24:56,340
second here now that secondary knowledge

522
00:24:59,210 --> 00:24:57,539
because you're passing along with

523
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,220
someone already told you but more

524
00:25:06,399 --> 00:25:01,559
importantly you can sense the

525
00:25:10,430 --> 00:25:06,409
frustration at the parsing step back

526
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:10,440
here is a guy who's saying I've talked

527
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:13,049
to the highest-ranking officials in the

528
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:15,570
government and there's no UFO program

529
00:25:20,779 --> 00:25:17,490
they don't know anything about UFOs

530
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:20,789
there's there's nothing out there we all

531
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:23,730
do it was [\h__\h] everybody knew was

532
00:25:32,930 --> 00:25:26,450
[\h__\h] but that didn't matter

533
00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:32,940
it didn't matter until December 16th

534
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:37,620
2017 new york times and our friend

535
00:25:48,379 --> 00:25:39,510
Leslie Kane who that's a whole other

536
00:25:56,519 --> 00:25:50,580
there's a whole fleet of a look on the

537
00:26:12,770 --> 00:25:56,529
assay but God well going against the

538
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:16,610
now notice that I titled that slide

539
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:20,370
controlled disclosure question mark and

540
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:22,450
it's hard with this show because this

541
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:23,679
shows about consciousness and

542
00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:27,490
spirituality really but and in a minute

543
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:29,320
I'll tell you why I think it relates to

544
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:32,770
this in a really important profound way

545
00:26:39,539 --> 00:26:36,370
but just stepping back in dealing with

546
00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:39,549
the conspiratorial aspect of this again

547
00:26:47,370 --> 00:26:42,070
you got to kind of put that hat on for a

548
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:47,380
minute and say okay New York Times the

549
00:26:52,350 --> 00:26:50,470
official record at least for still a lot

550
00:26:55,860 --> 00:26:52,360
of people not for a lot of other people

551
00:27:01,710 --> 00:26:55,870
but the New York Times has now said okay

552
00:27:06,060 --> 00:27:01,720
guys it's real but the point is if it's

553
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:06,070
real then it's always been real right

554
00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:09,970
then it's been real for 50 60 years it's

555
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:11,230
been real right

556
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:13,510
it isn't like they're pretending like

557
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:17,679
this is the first or only UFO program

558
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:19,289
right

559
00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:23,590
so john alexander you talked everyone

560
00:27:29,610 --> 00:27:27,940
and they said there's nothing right so i

561
00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:29,620
said a minute ago that this stuff does

562
00:27:34,919 --> 00:27:31,720
relate back to skeptic oh does relate

563
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:34,929
back to consciousness science or

564
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:37,480
consciousness understanding however you

565
00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:41,200
want to put it in spirituality so i

566
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:43,590
guess it's fair to ask how how does it

567
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:48,159
check out this his wife suddenly wants

568
00:27:53,970 --> 00:27:49,510
to talk about i'd like to talk about

569
00:27:56,730 --> 00:27:53,980
entanglement and i'm thinking why would

570
00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:56,740
you ask us your husband is a PhD in

571
00:28:02,430 --> 00:27:59,159
physics he's right he run the

572
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:02,440
parapsychology the the what they called

573
00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:05,289
a phenomenology desk at the CIA we would

574
00:28:09,899 --> 00:28:07,240
ask where does and what people have to

575
00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:09,909
realize is that when the CIA calls it

576
00:28:13,110 --> 00:28:12,280
phenomenology that is a hint as to

577
00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:13,120
what's going on

578
00:28:19,890 --> 00:28:16,409
it is not ufos its remote-viewing ghosts

579
00:28:21,270 --> 00:28:19,900
parapsychology the telepathy it's the

580
00:28:22,810 --> 00:28:21,280
whole ball of wax because it's all

581
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:22,820
consciousness

582
00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:26,480
and they know that and that's why when

583
00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:27,980
the Canadian government documents said

584
00:28:32,289 --> 00:28:30,980
in 1950 that mental phenomena may be

585
00:28:33,490 --> 00:28:32,299
involved the top-secret finian

586
00:28:35,049 --> 00:28:33,500
government document said mental

587
00:28:36,610 --> 00:28:35,059
phenomena may be involved in flying

588
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:36,620
saucers that's when they started the

589
00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:38,330
MKULTRA stuff that's when they started

590
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:39,470
all that can seem trying to figure out

591
00:28:43,690 --> 00:28:41,090
how to consciousness work because they

592
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,700
had a live alien in 1947 that's how the

593
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:45,440
Americans knew to tell the Canadians in

594
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:47,450
1950 the mental phenomena was involved

595
00:28:51,549 --> 00:28:49,850
nobody was talking to aliens in 1950 the

596
00:28:52,899 --> 00:28:51,559
Adamski and Williamson would not come

597
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:52,909
forward until a couple days after the

598
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:55,279
detonation the hydrogen bomb Betty and

599
00:28:57,310 --> 00:28:56,570
Barney Hill would not become public for

600
00:28:58,930 --> 00:28:57,320
mid 60s

601
00:29:01,299 --> 00:28:58,940
nobody said they're talking to aliens in

602
00:29:02,889 --> 00:29:01,309
public at least and so therefore how did

603
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,899
they know that mental phenomena was

604
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:04,159
involved because they had a live alien

605
00:29:07,659 --> 00:29:05,929
and they knew that the alien talked is

606
00:29:09,460 --> 00:29:07,669
telepathic and gets in your head and

607
00:29:11,230 --> 00:29:09,470
they went wow man if we could discover

608
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:11,240
how this work and so of course they

609
00:29:14,289 --> 00:29:12,710
threw every dime they had at

610
00:29:18,129 --> 00:29:14,299
consciousness trying to figure out how

611
00:29:20,289 --> 00:29:18,139
this thing worked I'm alone that of

612
00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:20,299
course is a grant Cameron who's been on

613
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:22,220
the show a couple of times I think is

614
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,129
one of the best UFO researchers and let

615
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:26,960
me just say I know this stuff is a

616
00:29:32,019 --> 00:29:29,330
little bit out there for some people for

617
00:29:34,330 --> 00:29:32,029
other people who like skeptical it's

618
00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:34,340
like old hat and for other people like

619
00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:36,169
skeptical it's like out there like way

620
00:29:43,629 --> 00:29:39,289
out there aliens they had an alien and

621
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:43,639
all the rest is stuff but it's real I

622
00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:46,610
mean the Wilbur Smith memo that he

623
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:48,350
referenced we did a whole show on that

624
00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:52,340
it's real it's a document released from

625
00:29:56,049 --> 00:29:54,409
the Canadian government a top-secret

626
00:29:57,850 --> 00:29:56,059
document and you know the grants

627
00:30:00,940 --> 00:29:57,860
research is extremely thorough

628
00:30:03,159 --> 00:30:00,950
researcher he went and were like traced

629
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:03,169
can we rely on this document is it real

630
00:30:09,159 --> 00:30:05,929
does it faked and another totally real

631
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:09,169
and as he alludes to there we've really

632
00:30:14,110 --> 00:30:10,580
start putting together pieces and I know

633
00:30:17,710 --> 00:30:14,120
he talks really fast that leads to this

634
00:30:21,879 --> 00:30:17,720
interest in consciousness that leads to

635
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:21,889
MK ULTRA that leads to Stargate remote

636
00:30:28,690 --> 00:30:25,370
viewing it was in response to what they

637
00:30:31,629 --> 00:30:28,700
were finding over here that's the the

638
00:30:33,820 --> 00:30:31,639
connection that grants making and I

639
00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:33,830
think the connection is undeniable in

640
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:35,950
terms of how things play out

641
00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:38,890
and if it wasn't undeniable before go

642
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:40,420
back and we read the New York Times and

643
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:43,330
watch that video I mean they kind of

644
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:45,580
tried to hide it but we all knew this

645
00:30:49,740 --> 00:30:48,070
stuff was real but let's get back to

646
00:30:52,410 --> 00:30:49,750
today's interview with John Alexander

647
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:52,420
for a minute one of the things I did

648
00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:55,090
after the show was I talked to my

649
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:56,950
buddies at the crime Erica show because

650
00:30:59,730 --> 00:30:58,570
they had interviewed Grant Cameron and

651
00:31:02,400 --> 00:30:59,740
they've done a lot of research on this

652
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:02,410
so I got on a video chat with Darren and

653
00:31:07,980 --> 00:31:04,930
Graham and I asked them what I think is

654
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:07,990
I think one of the essential questions

655
00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:11,350
key questions to be asked about dr.

656
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:15,990
Alexander you know an offensive defense

657
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:18,880
yeah well we in the West are very good

658
00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:23,110
offensive defense it's so final final

659
00:31:27,030 --> 00:31:25,300
question before I well there's actually

660
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,040
the big question is at the end is

661
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:29,200
whether I've roped you guys into a

662
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:31,390
career-ending decision or not but the

663
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:34,090
the the question before that is is John

664
00:31:45,090 --> 00:31:42,960
think he's you know I I'm not sure that

665
00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:45,100
he is a ground we'll probably disagree

666
00:31:51,030 --> 00:31:47,920
with me but I don't know for some reason

667
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:51,040
I just get the vibe of seeing somebody

668
00:32:02,580 --> 00:31:55,270
who's you know maybe misses the Green

669
00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:02,590
Beret days likes a little you know like

670
00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:14,950
he's some [\h__\h] one time and now you're

671
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:16,780
sort of caught in it you know it's like

672
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:20,290
one of those you know what settled

673
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:23,050
saying about you know lies where it's

674
00:32:26,850 --> 00:32:25,330
you know gets out of hand [\h__\h] quick

675
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:26,860
I mean we see that happen today all the

676
00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:28,450
time where these guys get and today in

677
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:30,040
today's world you get burned [\h__\h]

678
00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:34,150
fast but yeah I don't know I tend to

679
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:35,950
think he's stuck with it he's probably

680
00:32:41,580 --> 00:32:37,690
disinformation agent

681
00:32:44,250 --> 00:32:41,590
I'm skeptical the whole that whole side

682
00:32:45,650 --> 00:32:44,260
of the research the whole sigh the PK

683
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:45,660
all that stuff now I'm kind of

684
00:32:51,170 --> 00:32:47,850
- love kind of mixes all together with

685
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:51,180
the MK ULTRA and UFOs and disclosure and

686
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:52,110
I don't know

687
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:55,050
I wonder if MV MK ULTRA great now yeah

688
00:32:57,770 --> 00:32:55,580
maybe

689
00:33:01,850 --> 00:32:57,780
actually were in a Faraday cage so we

690
00:33:05,780 --> 00:33:01,860
should be good you know it's almost like

691
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:05,790
he's disinformation misinformation by

692
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:08,480
definition you know so whether he's

693
00:33:14,990 --> 00:33:12,330
being exact yeah whether he's being

694
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:15,000
directed controlled fed the stuff or

695
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:18,480
whether he's just being allowed to be a

696
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:21,840
mouthpiece for the misinformation

697
00:33:25,010 --> 00:33:23,100
disinformation

698
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:25,020
he's clearly I mean as we've

699
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:27,360
deconstructed it it's just it doesn't

700
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:29,130
hold on and not only that he's probably

701
00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:30,930
feeling like his job is being threatened

702
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:31,950
because all these old-school

703
00:33:36,980 --> 00:33:33,810
disinformation guys are just being

704
00:33:38,390 --> 00:33:36,990
replaced with trolls online trolls you

705
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,400
know that's the new battlefield you

706
00:33:42,530 --> 00:33:39,840
don't need these guys going on the news

707
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:42,540
anymore you just need a billion [\h__\h]

708
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:45,930
BOTS on Twitter can the warrior monk be

709
00:33:53,540 --> 00:33:50,210
replaced by a billion BOTS on Twitter I

710
00:33:56,930 --> 00:33:53,550
don't know maybe we'll find out in this

711
00:33:59,810 --> 00:33:56,940
interview with John Alexander who you

712
00:34:03,380 --> 00:33:59,820
know really has written a terrific book

713
00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:03,390
reality denied a book that covers a lot

714
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:05,720
of topics that we touch on in this

715
00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:08,370
including near-death experience research

716
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:09,870
and his experience and that is

717
00:34:14,150 --> 00:34:11,370
experienced with the Stargate program

718
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:14,160
that I mentioned ago also current news

719
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:18,000
like Tom DeLonge disclosure my lab stuff

720
00:34:24,830 --> 00:34:21,810
which he completely categorically says

721
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:24,840
is totally not real untrue what else did

722
00:34:29,090 --> 00:34:26,970
we talk about we talk about the aviary

723
00:34:32,690 --> 00:34:29,100
and other UFO stuff but we talk about a

724
00:34:35,570 --> 00:34:32,700
lot of non UFO stuff this book is really

725
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:35,580
about the consciousness kind of stuff

726
00:34:41,180 --> 00:34:38,610
that skeptic oh is kind of built on but

727
00:34:43,940 --> 00:34:41,190
I just had to go with the UFO stuff

728
00:34:45,860 --> 00:34:43,950
because you you can't do that you can't

729
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:45,870
do the head fake stuff you can't have a

730
00:34:53,630 --> 00:34:50,250
whole career built on extended

731
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,640
consciousness UFO alien stuff and then

732
00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:55,679
say yeah but now also I want to talk

733
00:34:59,470 --> 00:34:58,710
about our shamans and to be fair I mean

734
00:35:01,720 --> 00:34:59,480
that the

735
00:35:04,330 --> 00:35:01,730
he answered all the questions he didn't

736
00:35:09,550 --> 00:35:04,340
dodge a single question and I commend

737
00:35:12,010 --> 00:35:09,560
him for that I just can't quite figure

738
00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:12,020
him out so before we get to the

739
00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:13,700
interview just a couple of clean up

740
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:14,420
things you know

741
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:17,030
last episode I reached out and asked

742
00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:19,550
people if they were interested in

743
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,180
helping the show helping me in any way

744
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:25,520
to reach out to me and it's has been

745
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:28,609
phenomenal such a cool response so many

746
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:31,250
awesome people I've met I've talked to I

747
00:35:36,190 --> 00:35:34,400
video chatted with and there's gonna be

748
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:36,200
some great stuff that comes out of that

749
00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:39,230
great new content and a great little

750
00:35:43,270 --> 00:35:41,780
help on doing stuff so oh so so

751
00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:43,280
appreciate that especially just

752
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:45,350
appreciate connecting with you all

753
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,560
that's so cool so again if anyone ever

754
00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:50,720
wants to connect with me do it I'm

755
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:54,590
pretty accessible to send me an email so

756
00:35:59,530 --> 00:35:56,930
I think that'll do it let's get on to

757
00:36:05,750 --> 00:35:59,540
this interview with dr. John Alexander

758
00:36:17,299 --> 00:36:14,079
[Music]

759
00:36:19,059 --> 00:36:17,309
today we welcome dr. John Alexander to

760
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:19,069
skeptic Oh to talk about his new book

761
00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:23,369
reality denied firsthand experiences

762
00:36:29,779 --> 00:36:26,569
with things that can't happen but did

763
00:36:33,609 --> 00:36:29,789
dr. Alexander is a retired US Army

764
00:36:37,819 --> 00:36:33,619
colonel with a list of military and

765
00:36:39,859 --> 00:36:37,829
non-military distinctions which are way

766
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:39,869
too long to mention on this show he's

767
00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:42,450
one of those people as you'll hear about

768
00:36:49,609 --> 00:36:45,990
when he talks about this book who really

769
00:36:51,220 --> 00:36:49,619
has seen it all and done it all at least

770
00:36:53,539 --> 00:36:51,230
it seems that way

771
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:53,549
fortunately he has written a book about

772
00:36:58,849 --> 00:36:54,089
it

773
00:37:02,779 --> 00:36:58,859
welcome to skeptic oh thanks for joining

774
00:37:05,809 --> 00:37:02,789
me Oh glad to be here so we're talking

775
00:37:07,789 --> 00:37:05,819
on a landline it's a little bit

776
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:07,799
unfortunate I was really hoping we could

777
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:09,720
have done video because I have seen

778
00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:12,930
interviews from your home in Las Vegas

779
00:37:18,049 --> 00:37:16,140
and it's quite an amazing place I think

780
00:37:22,930 --> 00:37:18,059
it fits into this book and that you've

781
00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:22,940
almost compiled almost a museum-quality

782
00:37:27,279 --> 00:37:25,049
collection of things that you've

783
00:37:30,739 --> 00:37:27,289
gathered from around the world that

784
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:30,749
support this amazing journey that you've

785
00:37:36,609 --> 00:37:33,690
been on of discovering of strange things

786
00:37:39,229 --> 00:37:36,619
so is that true

787
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:39,239
pretty much Victoria likes to pick up

788
00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:41,249
stuff and we have been to a lot of

789
00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:43,859
places have tried to convince her

790
00:37:49,009 --> 00:37:45,660
there's more crosses in the world and

791
00:37:52,099 --> 00:37:49,019
anybody can possibly home but now we do

792
00:37:55,970 --> 00:37:52,109
have a lot of items from most of the

793
00:37:58,339 --> 00:37:55,980
places we've been so in this book

794
00:38:01,759 --> 00:37:58,349
reality tonight as I mentioned it's an

795
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:01,769
amazing account way way too many stories

796
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:04,640
to tell in an hour but we have UFOs

797
00:38:10,099 --> 00:38:07,200
near-death experience psychic spying

798
00:38:13,099 --> 00:38:10,109
medium spoon bending men who stare at

799
00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:13,109
goats it goes on and on and on it seems

800
00:38:20,329 --> 00:38:15,710
like no matter what area related to

801
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:20,339
extended consciousness and military

802
00:38:26,620 --> 00:38:23,569
interest in the paranormal

803
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:26,630
you've somehow been connected with at a

804
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:29,630
really really deep level almost at the

805
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:31,209
beginning of every one of these things

806
00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:34,880
but your book is also about

807
00:38:40,839 --> 00:38:37,160
what I like to call deep spirituality

808
00:38:43,779 --> 00:38:40,849
which is a frequent topic of this show

809
00:38:47,709 --> 00:38:43,789
and I almost feel like it's where we

810
00:38:51,069 --> 00:38:47,719
should begin because it seems to me

811
00:38:55,859 --> 00:38:51,079
where you come down on the spirituality

812
00:38:59,199 --> 00:38:55,869
question if you will is to approach it

813
00:39:02,170 --> 00:38:59,209
not so much because of any kind of

814
00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:02,180
religious reasons you might have but

815
00:39:09,009 --> 00:39:05,569
because it's at the fundamental core it

816
00:39:14,130 --> 00:39:09,019
seems to be of who we are in what we are

817
00:39:18,189 --> 00:39:14,140
and speak for a minute about that about

818
00:39:20,979 --> 00:39:18,199
spirituality about what it means

819
00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:20,989
about how it fits into this whole big

820
00:39:28,539 --> 00:39:25,430
picture of reality well I might mention

821
00:39:32,709 --> 00:39:28,549
the book is divided into four parts and

822
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:32,719
one of those I did title spirituality I

823
00:39:38,170 --> 00:39:36,049
might mention all war story if you will

824
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:38,180
but when I was doing my doctoral

825
00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:41,839
dissertation Elisabeth kubler-ross was

826
00:39:45,819 --> 00:39:43,670
ahead of my committee and I think many

827
00:39:47,469 --> 00:39:45,829
of the people will know hers or in the

828
00:39:51,309 --> 00:39:47,479
medical community she's the one who

829
00:39:53,170 --> 00:39:51,319
brought hospice to the u.s. and of

830
00:39:58,479 --> 00:39:53,180
course with Ray Moody started the whole

831
00:40:02,559 --> 00:39:58,489
area of mom or near-death experiences

832
00:40:05,259 --> 00:40:02,569
she made me change one word in the

833
00:40:10,569 --> 00:40:05,269
dissertation and that was from religious

834
00:40:13,959 --> 00:40:10,579
to spirituality and it had profound

835
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:13,969
impact on on the outcome of over writing

836
00:40:20,589 --> 00:40:18,170
because many people showed I had an

837
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,599
instrument that people responded to and

838
00:40:25,359 --> 00:40:23,119
many of them said you know I reject the

839
00:40:28,029 --> 00:40:25,369
dogma of the church but I think I have a

840
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:28,039
spiritual connection with higher beings

841
00:40:36,279 --> 00:40:31,930
and I think it's much broader than a

842
00:40:36,910 --> 00:40:36,289
quote religious context if you will one

843
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:36,920
of the things

844
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:39,890
I have found as you noticed I've dealt

845
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:42,910
with shamans from all over the world and

846
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:51,920
that outside of Europe in the u.s. the

847
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:54,650
notion of a spirit world is generally

848
00:41:00,010 --> 00:40:57,250
accepted in the West we have a

849
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:00,020
materialistic worldview that says you

850
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:01,730
know you can cut things into smaller and

851
00:41:07,150 --> 00:41:03,890
smaller pieces and eventually get to the

852
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:07,160
god particle Higgs boson or mal

853
00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:10,970
pentaquarks or whatever but in other

854
00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:14,030
areas of the world they do not draw that

855
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:16,670
distinction even the people who are

856
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:20,660
highly educated often educated in you

857
00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:23,810
know Western traditions but they accept

858
00:41:30,130 --> 00:41:27,430
you know that there is a spirit world

859
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:30,140
when I deal with shamans I might mention

860
00:41:35,470 --> 00:41:32,090
that you know they see the moves

861
00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:35,480
seamlessly back and forth between the

862
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:38,780
spirit world and what we would call a

863
00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:44,750
consensus reality or the real world John

864
00:41:48,130 --> 00:41:46,430
let me just interject a couple of things

865
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:48,140
cuz I remember that anecdote from the

866
00:41:52,210 --> 00:41:50,810
book and it's it's stunning it's an

867
00:41:54,490 --> 00:41:52,220
example of what I just talked about I

868
00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:54,500
mean here's a guy you know he's gonna

869
00:41:58,090 --> 00:41:55,790
write a book and he's going to talk

870
00:42:01,480 --> 00:41:58,100
about his experience with near-death

871
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:01,490
experience and the very beginning of

872
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:03,410
that as Elizabeth kubler-ross a lot of

873
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:05,570
people don't know it they associated

874
00:42:09,130 --> 00:42:07,310
with Raymond Moody but it was actually

875
00:42:10,450 --> 00:42:09,140
Elizabeth kubler-ross who went to

876
00:42:12,070 --> 00:42:10,460
Raymond Moody and said hey I can't

877
00:42:14,410 --> 00:42:12,080
include this in my book I have enough to

878
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:14,420
tackle here with Hospice long as you

879
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:16,400
tackle near-death experience and that's

880
00:42:20,980 --> 00:42:19,130
how that future begins and then you roll

881
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:20,990
that back into that future and lo and

882
00:42:24,810 --> 00:42:22,520
behold you're there and she's telling

883
00:42:26,890 --> 00:42:24,820
you don't say religiousness say

884
00:42:29,170 --> 00:42:26,900
spirituality I mean it's an amazing

885
00:42:31,630 --> 00:42:29,180
story and it hints to kind of there's

886
00:42:33,070 --> 00:42:31,640
one story like that after another in

887
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:33,080
this book and you're like how was this

888
00:42:37,450 --> 00:42:34,850
guy been at the beginning of all this

889
00:42:39,850 --> 00:42:37,460
but let's take it back to the question

890
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:39,860
of spirituality and we can either go

891
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:41,510
backwards in time or forwards in time

892
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:43,250
because as you just mentioned you go

893
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:44,930
forwards in time and you're down there

894
00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:47,690
with your wife doing spirit possessions

895
00:42:50,890 --> 00:42:50,030
with shaman in Brazil I mean this is

896
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:50,900
like in the last

897
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:53,599
years crazy stuff that most people don't

898
00:42:57,849 --> 00:42:55,490
talk about but you can also go back in

899
00:42:59,740 --> 00:42:57,859
your history and you have experiences on

900
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,750
the battlefield with people who say yeah

901
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:02,000
that NDE stuff I know it's real because

902
00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:03,920
I've seen it on the battlefield and I'm

903
00:43:08,109 --> 00:43:05,990
you know left my body or seeing my body

904
00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:08,119
or had near-death experience and stuff

905
00:43:15,329 --> 00:43:11,720
like that so let's again try and fly

906
00:43:17,980 --> 00:43:15,339
over this thing at 50,000 feet what is

907
00:43:20,980 --> 00:43:17,990
spirituality you've had such a broad

908
00:43:23,769 --> 00:43:20,990
experience with it in so many ways how

909
00:43:25,269 --> 00:43:23,779
do you define it in your life I mean why

910
00:43:28,329 --> 00:43:25,279
are you going down to Brazil with your

911
00:43:31,299 --> 00:43:28,339
wife why are you subjecting yourself to

912
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:31,309
these experiences with shaman what is

913
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:35,960
that what does it all mean to you I wish

914
00:43:41,019 --> 00:43:37,609
I had a good answer for that and

915
00:43:45,069 --> 00:43:41,029
certainly nothing succinct I often get

916
00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:45,079
asked you know how did I transform and I

917
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:48,640
say there was no epiphany it's a magical

918
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:51,170
transformational incident it's been more

919
00:43:56,859 --> 00:43:54,890
like turning a cruise ship or an

920
00:43:59,890 --> 00:43:56,869
aircraft carrier where you see slight

921
00:44:04,029 --> 00:43:59,900
train I've always been interested things

922
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:04,039
unusual and have followed that for you

923
00:44:11,260 --> 00:44:07,010
know absolutely decades a lot of us

924
00:44:14,769 --> 00:44:11,270
revolves around Victoria my wife will

925
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:14,779
probably get into ayahuasca for instance

926
00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:18,079
and she's a devotee and one who is

927
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:21,529
willing to take great leaps in these

928
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:24,319
areas and it's one of those things that

929
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:28,940
for listeners a you get involved it just

930
00:44:36,010 --> 00:44:33,049
the doors keep opening for the gift that

931
00:44:38,769 --> 00:44:36,020
keeps on giving if you will okay let me

932
00:44:40,359 --> 00:44:38,779
try this one more time well how about

933
00:44:43,539 --> 00:44:40,369
just some of the fundamental questions

934
00:44:46,269 --> 00:44:43,549
that people really struggle with at the

935
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:46,279
end of the day morality good and bad

936
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:48,890
does God exist is there an ultimate

937
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:51,890
truth is there a moral imperative is

938
00:44:56,980 --> 00:44:54,319
there a good and bad or is it just a big

939
00:44:59,319 --> 00:44:56,990
blob out there of consciousness in

940
00:45:00,970 --> 00:44:59,329
spirits and you know a demon-haunted

941
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:00,980
world where people are pushing and

942
00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:03,760
pulling but there's no real order to

943
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:08,580
well it's very difficult to say I

944
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:11,170
mentioned all here's an example of my

945
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:14,770
UFO book first line was UFOs are real

946
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:18,790
and the last paragraph is whatever this

947
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:21,010
is it is more complex and we could

948
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:24,070
possibly imagine and in all of my

949
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:27,130
presentations I have a slide that shows

950
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:30,430
early that incorporates many of these

951
00:45:37,290 --> 00:45:33,880
things from UFOs near-death experiences

952
00:45:42,450 --> 00:45:37,300
remote viewing spontaneous healing fire

953
00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:42,460
walking etc etc and in my view those are

954
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:45,550
all interconnected in some way and

955
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:49,290
certainly consciousness is a piece of it

956
00:45:56,460 --> 00:45:52,450
personal philosophy is I am in a

957
00:46:00,510 --> 00:45:56,470
recycling ie you know coming back again

958
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:00,520
or reincarnation and so maybe when you

959
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:03,609
get issues of morality or these are

960
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:06,790
lessons that each individual are going

961
00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:09,010
to be confronted with and have to learn

962
00:46:15,660 --> 00:46:13,150
at some juncture so let's break down

963
00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:15,670
there's so many different directions we

964
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:18,760
can go but near-death experience science

965
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:20,710
is something we've talked a lot about on

966
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:22,930
this show and again I hate to repeat

967
00:46:29,579 --> 00:46:25,810
myself but you're right in the middle of

968
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:29,589
that research you're deeply connected

969
00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:31,570
with some of the early near-death

970
00:46:37,020 --> 00:46:34,540
experience researchers you're deeply

971
00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:37,030
connected with the original formation of

972
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:42,040
ions so you are very much a person to

973
00:46:48,450 --> 00:46:45,210
talk to and ask these questions about

974
00:46:51,810 --> 00:46:48,460
with regard to near-death experience

975
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:51,820
research we have clearly I think

976
00:46:55,710 --> 00:46:54,490
evidence and you this is what you say in

977
00:46:59,099 --> 00:46:55,720
the book and I completely agree with you

978
00:47:01,050 --> 00:46:59,109
the evidence is overwhelming that it's a

979
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:01,060
highly suggestive that consciousness

980
00:47:06,810 --> 00:47:04,089
survives bodily death the skeptical

981
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:06,820
counter explanations for that are just

982
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:09,670
really kind of shamefully stupid and

983
00:47:15,150 --> 00:47:11,290
just a lot of ways and scientifically

984
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:15,160
not very strong in a lot of ways but

985
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:16,920
again let me take that one

986
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:19,050
further one of the near-death experience

987
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,210
researchers I always think does

988
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:23,760
extremely got extremely good job with

989
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:28,500
the data is oncologist dr. Jeffery long

990
00:47:33,770 --> 00:47:31,290
who's published a couple books but is

991
00:47:37,310 --> 00:47:33,780
the first person who's done I guess the

992
00:47:40,460 --> 00:47:37,320
most comprehensive survey of near-death

993
00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:40,470
experience survivors and he approaches

994
00:47:45,890 --> 00:47:42,660
this question of morality the god

995
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:45,900
question is there a purpose and the data

996
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:48,290
that he finds scientifically is

997
00:47:52,850 --> 00:47:50,910
overwhelmingly that's what people are

998
00:47:54,430 --> 00:47:52,860
saying when they come back that there

999
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:54,440
are people that have negative near-death

1000
00:47:59,840 --> 00:47:58,050
experiences there are negative aspects

1001
00:48:01,940 --> 00:47:59,850
to some of these experiences but those

1002
00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:01,950
are a small small fraction of the

1003
00:48:06,830 --> 00:48:03,030
overall experience

1004
00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:06,840
overall people are finding one that it

1005
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,120
is not religious that it can't be

1006
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:11,520
pigeonholed into a christian experience

1007
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:14,040
or any other religious experience but

1008
00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:18,650
that it - it is basically confirming of

1009
00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:21,900
what religion has told us that there is

1010
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,060
an afterlife there is a judgment

1011
00:48:28,730 --> 00:48:26,160
associated with that afterlife there is

1012
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:28,740
a review there is a morality to life

1013
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:30,300
there is good and bad and that you

1014
00:48:33,980 --> 00:48:32,250
should try and do good things I'm not

1015
00:48:35,780 --> 00:48:33,990
trying to turn this into some kind of

1016
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:35,790
religious discussion I'm not a religious

1017
00:48:41,390 --> 00:48:38,400
person I'm just saying to me this is the

1018
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:41,400
level to discussion that your book bags

1019
00:48:46,460 --> 00:48:44,250
which is it begs the question of what

1020
00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:46,470
does this mean now so what does this

1021
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:49,500
near-death experience mean when we start

1022
00:48:55,940 --> 00:48:51,720
looking at it in that way and it seems

1023
00:48:59,480 --> 00:48:55,950
to suggest that there is more in terms

1024
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:59,490
of the deep meaning that many have

1025
00:49:04,490 --> 00:49:00,720
associated with the near-death

1026
00:49:06,290 --> 00:49:04,500
experience what do you think John well I

1027
00:49:09,380 --> 00:49:06,300
think you just made a strong argument

1028
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:09,390
for the issues of spirituality versus

1029
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:13,410
religion and some of my recent comments

1030
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:16,920
online I've been mentioning that from

1031
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:18,930
these religious issues that come up that

1032
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:20,760
if the founder ever came back in

1033
00:49:26,090 --> 00:49:22,290
Christianity he wouldn't recognize

1034
00:49:29,859 --> 00:49:26,100
what's going on today certainly the

1035
00:49:33,319 --> 00:49:29,869
hypocrisy tends to be rampant

1036
00:49:36,609 --> 00:49:33,329
yeah there are common messages and

1037
00:49:40,609 --> 00:49:36,619
inferences I was interested in cases

1038
00:49:42,829 --> 00:49:40,619
that in which certain things happen

1039
00:49:44,329 --> 00:49:42,839
again being kind of a scientist and

1040
00:49:46,849 --> 00:49:44,339
approaching it from from that

1041
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:46,859
perspective you know what is the

1042
00:49:54,229 --> 00:49:50,180
evidence that supports that the

1043
00:49:56,359 --> 00:49:54,239
incidents are in fact real and there are

1044
00:50:00,460 --> 00:49:56,369
there's some I think compelling stories

1045
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:00,470
of individuals who acquire information

1046
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:03,599
during this period when they were out of

1047
00:50:11,509 --> 00:50:06,569
their body and ability to observe things

1048
00:50:15,970 --> 00:50:11,519
that they did not have access to in any

1049
00:50:18,799 --> 00:50:15,980
physical means whatsoever you also find

1050
00:50:21,319 --> 00:50:18,809
precognitive aspects to it where they

1051
00:50:24,499 --> 00:50:21,329
are given information about the future

1052
00:50:28,430 --> 00:50:24,509
that then turns out to be you know quite

1053
00:50:31,339 --> 00:50:28,440
accurate you had mentioned in before

1054
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:31,349
you'll pass time the future time one of

1055
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:34,410
the things we tend to come up with is

1056
00:50:41,329 --> 00:50:37,920
there probably is no time and that our

1057
00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:41,339
entire concept of time is wrong though

1058
00:50:50,019 --> 00:50:45,900
we use it to mark a passage from you

1059
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:50,029
know as we progress in this lifetime

1060
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:53,130
agreed and and I think that those are

1061
00:50:57,170 --> 00:50:54,569
the kind of things that you mosey into

1062
00:50:58,700 --> 00:50:57,180
just like you did just from one sentence

1063
00:51:01,609 --> 00:50:58,710
to another and then you realized that

1064
00:51:04,249 --> 00:51:01,619
you're kind of in a deep swamp as soon

1065
00:51:05,930 --> 00:51:04,259
as you start saying well by all evidence

1066
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:05,940
we have there is no such thing as time

1067
00:51:10,370 --> 00:51:08,460
and it's kind of an arbitrary overlay

1068
00:51:12,049 --> 00:51:10,380
that we put on things it's like wow how

1069
00:51:14,479 --> 00:51:12,059
are we even talking about things like

1070
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:14,489
past lives or things like between lives

1071
00:51:19,729 --> 00:51:16,890
or things like afterlife all those

1072
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:19,739
things the meaning becomes very fuzzy

1073
00:51:29,529 --> 00:51:22,650
yet at the same time this is what we're

1074
00:51:34,999 --> 00:51:29,539
trying to pull apart isn't it Lucian

1075
00:51:36,109 --> 00:51:35,009
albeit a very persistent one yeah let me

1076
00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:36,119
ask you another question about the

1077
00:51:40,729 --> 00:51:37,980
near-death experience science because

1078
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:40,739
it's something I've delved into a lot do

1079
00:51:45,350 --> 00:51:43,290
you think that the scientific

1080
00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:45,360
establishment the neuroscience

1081
00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:47,940
establishment is playing it straight

1082
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:51,060
with this pushback they have against

1083
00:51:55,580 --> 00:51:53,310
near-death experience science I mean I

1084
00:51:59,090 --> 00:51:55,590
take for example something we covered a

1085
00:52:01,400 --> 00:51:59,100
lot was dr. eben Alexander after the

1086
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:01,410
publication of course of Harvard

1087
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,330
neuroscientist publishes a best-selling

1088
00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:06,000
book proof of heaven there's just this

1089
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:08,280
orchestrated pushback against the work

1090
00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:11,490
and it just doesn't seem real in a way

1091
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:14,040
it doesn't seem it seems to be coming

1092
00:52:19,220 --> 00:52:16,170
from another place with another agenda

1093
00:52:22,310 --> 00:52:19,230
that isn't quite disclosed in terms of

1094
00:52:24,350 --> 00:52:22,320
why there would be such an orchestrated

1095
00:52:26,180 --> 00:52:24,360
pushback on something that you've got

1096
00:52:28,850 --> 00:52:26,190
alluded to with the South American thing

1097
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:28,860
is widely accepted throughout the world

1098
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:32,880
and is widely accepted even among among

1099
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:34,260
people in the United States I mean

1100
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:36,810
afterlife is widely accepted and then if

1101
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:38,880
you look at it from a historical

1102
00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:41,310
perspective I mean this is like a brief

1103
00:52:46,450 --> 00:52:44,040
little blip we have here in time of this

1104
00:52:49,370 --> 00:52:46,460
small group of materialist science who

1105
00:52:51,230 --> 00:52:49,380
denied this is there something more is

1106
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:51,240
there something else pushing that agenda

1107
00:52:55,490 --> 00:52:53,460
that's a question I guess we were turned

1108
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:55,500
to time and again when we talk about

1109
00:52:59,300 --> 00:52:57,210
different things but how about with the

1110
00:53:04,040 --> 00:52:59,310
youth with near-death experience

1111
00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:04,050
well I think many people would agree

1112
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:06,360
that we are a fear-based society and

1113
00:53:13,700 --> 00:53:10,730
many things that we do and from a

1114
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:13,710
materialistic viewpoint if this stuff is

1115
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:17,910
right then the foundations of your

1116
00:53:23,870 --> 00:53:20,610
entire belief system are at risk and

1117
00:53:25,820 --> 00:53:23,880
that's very very scary now there's

1118
00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:25,830
another piece of it I think that gets

1119
00:53:32,030 --> 00:53:28,430
into more into the religious domain and

1120
00:53:36,530 --> 00:53:32,040
that has to do with in a control factor

1121
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:36,540
where priests or you know various

1122
00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:39,510
spiritual leaders want to be the

1123
00:53:44,990 --> 00:53:42,900
arbiters of information and one of the

1124
00:53:47,630 --> 00:53:45,000
things that I have found is that in

1125
00:53:51,830 --> 00:53:47,640
dealing with any of these areas that

1126
00:53:55,170 --> 00:53:51,840
allow for direct experience of a divine

1127
00:53:57,540 --> 00:53:55,180
being or external consciousness

1128
00:54:01,080 --> 00:53:57,550
they would prefer to be the ones who are

1129
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:01,090
the arbiters and you know present what

1130
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:04,260
what the facts are as opposed to having

1131
00:54:10,970 --> 00:54:06,940
individuals who say I've been there and

1132
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:10,980
done that does that extend into

1133
00:54:19,890 --> 00:54:16,980
government agencies well you'd have to

1134
00:54:21,660 --> 00:54:19,900
extrapolate government there because

1135
00:54:25,170 --> 00:54:21,670
remember there are government's in the

1136
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:25,180
world that are you know theocratic so

1137
00:54:33,650 --> 00:54:28,690
that by definition is religious

1138
00:54:35,490 --> 00:54:33,660
influence I don't see it so much in the

1139
00:54:37,710 --> 00:54:35,500
Western world unless you're talking

1140
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:37,720
about the general area of secrecy

1141
00:54:42,890 --> 00:54:40,690
because there I mean it's understand

1142
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:42,900
across the board in all domains

1143
00:54:49,970 --> 00:54:45,970
information is power and so he who

1144
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:49,980
controls information controls

1145
00:54:56,580 --> 00:54:52,210
considerable amount of power and

1146
00:55:00,810 --> 00:54:56,590
therefore influence right which is you

1147
00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:00,820
know John I'm reading this amazing book

1148
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:03,040
of yours and I'm reading these amazing

1149
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:04,960
stories some of which we just have to

1150
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:07,450
cover because we have to get this out

1151
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:09,370
there for folks who don't have a chance

1152
00:55:15,570 --> 00:55:11,460
to read it and you really should read

1153
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:15,580
reality denied if you can't find a dozen

1154
00:55:20,730 --> 00:55:18,730
just completely paradigm shattering

1155
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:20,740
stories they're just by sticking your

1156
00:55:26,430 --> 00:55:23,200
thumb into the book at any random place

1157
00:55:29,010 --> 00:55:26,440
well then I don't know I don't know how

1158
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:29,020
you couldn't I guess is my point but I

1159
00:55:34,170 --> 00:55:30,910
kept reading this book and I'm trying to

1160
00:55:37,230 --> 00:55:34,180
square it with what I guess has for a

1161
00:55:39,870 --> 00:55:37,240
long time been the general overriding

1162
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:39,880
meme associated with John Alexander

1163
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:43,510
which is this guy who debates people at

1164
00:55:47,790 --> 00:55:46,090
UFO conferences saying that the

1165
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:47,800
government doesn't know anything about

1166
00:55:53,940 --> 00:55:50,470
UFOs and if they did I would know that

1167
00:55:57,330 --> 00:55:53,950
they did and I know and they don't well

1168
00:56:01,130 --> 00:55:57,340
what is that whole meme all about is

1169
00:56:04,050 --> 00:56:01,140
that something you is that an accurate

1170
00:56:06,570 --> 00:56:04,060
characterization of the way a lot of

1171
00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:06,580
people think of you I it seems to be out

1172
00:56:11,650 --> 00:56:08,460
there and is it true

1173
00:56:15,170 --> 00:56:11,660
I can't speak to what other people think

1174
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:15,180
but I don't think particularly the

1175
00:56:20,420 --> 00:56:17,760
recent revelations that I can say if it

1176
00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:20,430
were there I would know about it

1177
00:56:28,010 --> 00:56:23,390
I think what you talked about the recent

1178
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:28,020
stuff that to the Stars has been

1179
00:56:33,890 --> 00:56:30,480
fortunate enough to release on studies

1180
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:33,900
of going on what you find is you have

1181
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:37,170
tiny pockets of people who have had

1182
00:56:43,310 --> 00:56:40,490
personal experience and the ability to

1183
00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:43,320
research that one of the things I

1184
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:47,369
mentioned in all of these phenomena it

1185
00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:51,150
UFOs near-death experiences precognition

1186
00:56:57,050 --> 00:56:54,089
he'll take your phenomenon remember the

1187
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:57,060
government whatever that is is made up

1188
00:57:04,430 --> 00:57:00,720
of millions of individuals and what we

1189
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:04,440
know is across the board that a vast

1190
00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:07,290
number of them probably more than a

1191
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:10,980
majority have had some kind of psychic

1192
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:14,330
experience in their life if it's UFOs

1193
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:17,130
probably 10% have actually seen

1194
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:20,460
something that they believe a dolphin

1195
00:57:24,980 --> 00:57:22,170
particularly in the military who have

1196
00:57:26,980 --> 00:57:24,990
been in threatening situation you find

1197
00:57:30,980 --> 00:57:26,990
people who have had near-death

1198
00:57:34,940 --> 00:57:30,990
experiences now one of the areas right

1199
00:57:36,980 --> 00:57:34,950
get into some difficulty in is that when

1200
00:57:39,620 --> 00:57:36,990
you get into these areas they will the

1201
00:57:42,980 --> 00:57:39,630
government should study this some by the

1202
00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:42,990
US government now I argue that's not

1203
00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:46,830
necessarily the case you do not expect

1204
00:57:53,260 --> 00:57:49,140
that the government is responsible for

1205
00:57:58,609 --> 00:57:53,270
confirming ones individual belief system

1206
00:58:02,020 --> 00:57:58,619
although to be fair and this goes I

1207
00:58:05,570 --> 00:58:02,030
think to all of the various phenomena

1208
00:58:08,540 --> 00:58:05,580
you do find a be each individual comes

1209
00:58:11,420 --> 00:58:08,550
to the institution with their set belief

1210
00:58:16,310 --> 00:58:11,430
system and there certainly have been

1211
00:58:20,859 --> 00:58:16,320
some who have used that you know in ways

1212
00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:23,750
one of the things that just came out and

1213
00:58:33,470 --> 00:58:29,910
the recent again release is that there

1214
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:33,480
were people who believed in UFOs but

1215
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:37,280
said we shouldn't do that because there

1216
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:40,290
these are demonic and we shouldn't be

1217
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:42,390
involved we saw that in the remote

1218
00:58:49,250 --> 00:58:45,410
viewing program who said we have

1219
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:49,260
opponents who said yeah you can probably

1220
00:58:53,299 --> 00:58:51,690
do that but we should not be involved

1221
00:58:57,500 --> 00:58:53,309
because it's the work of the devil

1222
00:59:00,740 --> 00:58:57,510
so in all cases you have individuals

1223
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:00,750
both pro and con bringing individual

1224
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:05,520
belief systems into you know potential

1225
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:08,960
study or looking at these issues and

1226
00:59:15,799 --> 00:59:12,450
they're terribly terribly complex so

1227
00:59:19,099 --> 00:59:15,809
whatever we're dealing with let me try

1228
00:59:20,539 --> 00:59:19,109
and pin it down with a breaking story in

1229
00:59:22,940 --> 00:59:20,549
the last couple weeks and I don't know

1230
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:22,950
if you were referring to that in a

1231
00:59:27,319 --> 00:59:25,140
couple of things you say but oh yeah

1232
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:27,329
okay so everyone's heard of the the New

1233
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:30,599
York Times UFO story right because talk

1234
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:33,690
by Tom DeLonge but the UFO story breaks

1235
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:36,089
in the New York Times for people who are

1236
00:59:41,180 --> 00:59:39,210
connected to the UFO community they're

1237
00:59:43,490 --> 00:59:41,190
like well this is the tip of the iceberg

1238
00:59:45,410 --> 00:59:43,500
we've known about this stuff forever but

1239
00:59:48,380 --> 00:59:45,420
for the general population it still

1240
00:59:49,849 --> 00:59:48,390
seems to be more of a bombshell than

1241
00:59:52,460 --> 00:59:49,859
then I guess I could have anticipated

1242
00:59:55,460 --> 00:59:52,470
that people are going look look it's

1243
00:59:59,650 --> 00:59:55,470
real the government is known about UFOs

1244
01:00:02,900 --> 00:59:59,660
and then I just want you to clarify

1245
01:00:04,549 --> 01:00:02,910
where you've stood in the past on this

1246
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:04,559
kind of information because it just

1247
01:00:08,539 --> 01:00:06,210
seems to me just being totally blunt

1248
01:00:11,150 --> 01:00:08,549
that you've always been a guy who said

1249
01:00:14,089 --> 01:00:11,160
this kind of stuff couldn't possibly be

1250
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:14,099
happening and if it was happening I

1251
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:15,530
would know about it

1252
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:20,730
well understand I retired in 88 and I

1253
01:00:27,799 --> 01:00:24,450
certainly didn't know everything but I

1254
01:00:30,829 --> 01:00:27,809
think I can say first of all Iran of

1255
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:30,839
such a study throughout most of the

1256
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:32,170
1980s

1257
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:34,930
until the time that I retired now the

1258
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:37,570
difference between what Lou is able to

1259
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:41,760
do and me as he got funded we did not

1260
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:45,810
many of the same players I had

1261
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:49,110
representatives from all of the services

1262
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:52,290
across the intelligence community and

1263
01:00:59,160 --> 01:00:57,010
aerospace industry involved one of the

1264
01:01:02,670 --> 01:00:59,170
things we found by the way which is

1265
01:01:06,030 --> 01:01:02,680
identical to what they discovered is

1266
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:06,040
nobody's in charge so what you had in

1267
01:01:15,180 --> 01:01:08,650
this case is an individual who was

1268
01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:15,190
response or interested yes 15 and able

1269
01:01:21,210 --> 01:01:18,430
to put together a tiny study now when

1270
01:01:23,550 --> 01:01:21,220
you say the government says one of the

1271
01:01:26,340 --> 01:01:23,560
things I used to do when I was assigned

1272
01:01:29,310 --> 01:01:26,350
in the Pentagon is to run around say

1273
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:29,320
where is this guy yes the Pentagon says

1274
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,170
this and the Pentagon says that the

1275
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:34,480
Pentagon doesn't say anything it's a big

1276
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:38,050
stone building there are tens of

1277
01:01:44,970 --> 01:01:40,690
thousands of people who work there with

1278
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:44,980
a wide variety of beliefs one of the

1279
01:01:50,970 --> 01:01:47,770
things I've just turned I have to

1280
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:50,980
confirm yet is that secretary mattis

1281
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:54,730
learned about this program a few hours

1282
01:02:02,190 --> 01:01:58,240
before the New York Times broke meaning

1283
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:02,200
this is not a concerted effort you know

1284
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:04,450
it was an individual putting together

1285
01:02:10,980 --> 01:02:07,930
the resources that he could by the way

1286
01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:10,990
one of the things that those pop up is

1287
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:13,120
the Reed Bigelow connection and I do

1288
01:02:19,710 --> 01:02:16,180
understand that that was a competitive

1289
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:19,720
bid and that bass or Bigelow Aerospace

1290
01:02:27,810 --> 01:02:23,410
actually won it but this you have

1291
01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:27,820
pockets that are involved should not

1292
01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:31,800
surprise people I also see big

1293
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:35,470
discussions about whether the threat

1294
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:40,480
based aspect of this that does not

1295
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:43,930
surprise me at all is exactly what I did

1296
01:02:47,810 --> 01:02:44,490
there

1297
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:47,820
years ago and the point is it is the

1298
01:02:55,580 --> 01:02:51,330
Department of Defense not the Department

1299
01:02:59,780 --> 01:02:55,590
of interesting ideas or weird stuff to

1300
01:03:03,020 --> 01:02:59,790
cover so in order to get funding you had

1301
01:03:06,190 --> 01:03:03,030
to put it in some kind of context where

1302
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:06,200
it could withstand a degree of scrutiny

1303
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:10,530
you also find out that over time a very

1304
01:03:16,070 --> 01:03:12,690
small group which is definitely the way

1305
01:03:19,940 --> 01:03:16,080
to do it but as the program became

1306
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:19,950
visible it became under more and more

1307
01:03:26,060 --> 01:03:23,610
attacks and eventually you know they've

1308
01:03:30,230 --> 01:03:26,070
always said even in the black world it's

1309
01:03:34,340 --> 01:03:30,240
a zero-sum game there is competition for

1310
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:34,350
the resources and what did happen here

1311
01:03:39,230 --> 01:03:37,050
is they got to a point where other

1312
01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:39,240
people wanted the money quite frankly

1313
01:03:44,990 --> 01:03:40,980
and so you saw a discontinuation

1314
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:45,000
remember we're talking 22 million over

1315
01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:48,960
five years which I actually ran the

1316
01:03:58,190 --> 01:03:53,430
numbers we were talking about 0.001

1317
01:04:00,820 --> 01:03:58,200
percent of a budget I saw yes let's

1318
01:04:03,260 --> 01:04:00,830
touch on another topic in the news

1319
01:04:07,130 --> 01:04:03,270
because it again too relates directly

1320
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:07,140
back to the book reality denied and some

1321
01:04:11,810 --> 01:04:08,880
of the important people in that book in

1322
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:11,820
this case Hal put off so I'm referring

1323
01:04:18,099 --> 01:04:15,810
to the Tom DeLonge disclosure which a

1324
01:04:20,690 --> 01:04:18,109
lot of people look at as some kind of

1325
01:04:22,550 --> 01:04:20,700
control disclosure I don't know if

1326
01:04:25,460 --> 01:04:22,560
there's any other way to look at it of

1327
01:04:29,780 --> 01:04:25,470
course Tom DeLonge is this famous rock

1328
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:29,790
star or blink-182 guy close associations

1329
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:33,090
with the Democratic side of the equation

1330
01:04:39,770 --> 01:04:36,480
with his association with the Clinton

1331
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:39,780
campaign and Podesta and and the

1332
01:04:44,660 --> 01:04:42,000
supposed disclosure that was going to

1333
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:44,670
come about so now Tom DeLonge has come

1334
01:04:49,340 --> 01:04:47,250
out with this blue-ribbon committee

1335
01:04:51,620 --> 01:04:49,350
we're going to take this stuff to the

1336
01:04:53,090 --> 01:04:51,630
stars the government again the

1337
01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:53,100
government if you'll forgive me I mean

1338
01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:54,660
that's the only term we can use but

1339
01:04:59,690 --> 01:04:58,050
there's top ranking officials within the

1340
01:05:02,810 --> 01:04:59,700
intelligence military intelligence

1341
01:05:06,380 --> 01:05:02,820
community and the government community

1342
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:06,390
that are joining on board one of them is

1343
01:05:12,050 --> 01:05:08,640
hell put off and there's this other

1344
01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:12,060
group of stars studied people in the

1345
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,720
know both from the military contractors

1346
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:17,280
and from the military themselves and

1347
01:05:23,390 --> 01:05:20,130
we're going to build this spacecraft

1348
01:05:26,900 --> 01:05:23,400
based on this technology that's been

1349
01:05:29,590 --> 01:05:26,910
revealed to us and here we go forget

1350
01:05:32,270 --> 01:05:29,600
about the larger social implications of

1351
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:32,280
visitation by aliens from another planet

1352
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:35,130
we're just going to go grind out some

1353
01:05:40,670 --> 01:05:37,440
technology the whole thing looks

1354
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:40,680
completely contrived to me and yet at

1355
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:42,330
the same time it does seem to have some

1356
01:05:47,690 --> 01:05:45,480
reality to it tell us what you make of

1357
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:47,700
hell put off tell us what you make of

1358
01:05:53,140 --> 01:05:50,010
Tom DeLonge tell us what you make of

1359
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:53,150
what appears to be controlled and

1360
01:06:00,220 --> 01:05:57,690
deliberate drip by drip disclosure okay

1361
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:00,230
for the next three days we're going to

1362
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:05,130
yeah first of all for disclosure Hal has

1363
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:08,730
been a personal friend for decades so

1364
01:06:12,530 --> 01:06:11,010
know him very well then you'll also find

1365
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:12,540
one of the things I mentioned in the

1366
01:06:19,970 --> 01:06:15,930
book by the way is that certain people

1367
01:06:22,340 --> 01:06:19,980
seem to reappear from time to time in

1368
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:22,350
different areas he was instrumental in

1369
01:06:29,950 --> 01:06:26,010
the remote viewing program interested in

1370
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:29,960
the PK and of course has independent lab

1371
01:06:41,660 --> 01:06:37,650
down there in Austin so long I don't

1372
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:41,670
I've spoken with him once I have never

1373
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:44,400
met him so I don't know I know a number

1374
01:06:49,700 --> 01:06:47,280
of the other people who were integrally

1375
01:06:52,820 --> 01:06:49,710
involved but not all of them and you're

1376
01:06:55,820 --> 01:06:52,830
right and describing it as a you know

1377
01:06:58,850 --> 01:06:55,830
quite a stellar group where I would

1378
01:07:03,500 --> 01:06:58,860
disagree is that this is any kind of

1379
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:03,510
contrived release of information again

1380
01:07:10,210 --> 01:07:07,440
it was a very small study pieces of it

1381
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:10,220
are ongoing by

1382
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:13,970
all accounts where as getting funded or

1383
01:07:20,260 --> 01:07:16,130
emphasis getting funded does not seem to

1384
01:07:23,859 --> 01:07:20,270
be clear but you know there are

1385
01:07:26,170 --> 01:07:23,869
individuals and where I do agree

1386
01:07:31,540 --> 01:07:26,180
strongly with most of the people from

1387
01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:31,550
the to the stars is that there is a huge

1388
01:07:38,859 --> 01:07:33,910
problem with over-classification

1389
01:07:43,150 --> 01:07:38,869
and one of the things I've gone cuñado

1390
01:07:45,420 --> 01:07:43,160
lemma and saying studying this strictly

1391
01:07:49,570 --> 01:07:45,430
from a government or military

1392
01:07:52,839 --> 01:07:49,580
perspective I think is wrong because

1393
01:07:55,089 --> 01:07:52,849
while the study as far as I know what

1394
01:07:57,820 --> 01:07:55,099
they looked at were cases it did happen

1395
01:07:59,880 --> 01:07:57,830
to the military and understand all of

1396
01:08:02,770 --> 01:07:59,890
that but there are far more things

1397
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:02,780
happening to just everybody remember

1398
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:06,650
this is a global phenomena and you know

1399
01:08:13,210 --> 01:08:10,010
seems to have intensified over time but

1400
01:08:16,420 --> 01:08:13,220
the reports go back millennia and you

1401
01:08:19,420 --> 01:08:16,430
had raised the question of contact and

1402
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:19,430
that my point is that there have been

1403
01:08:27,390 --> 01:08:23,330
reports or allegations of contact

1404
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:27,400
between humans and sentient nonhumans

1405
01:08:33,940 --> 01:08:30,370
throughout the entirety of human history

1406
01:08:36,370 --> 01:08:33,950
throughout every culture this is why

1407
01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:36,380
when I get back to saying whatever we're

1408
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:38,719
dealing with is terribly terribly

1409
01:08:48,130 --> 01:08:45,290
complex so I think this is just one of

1410
01:08:51,700 --> 01:08:48,140
the many data points I think that they

1411
01:08:53,620 --> 01:08:51,710
have acquired some data that do look

1412
01:08:55,209 --> 01:08:53,630
interesting but having said that I think

1413
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:55,219
when it gets down on the bottom line

1414
01:09:00,670 --> 01:08:57,890
questions like what is it where does it

1415
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:00,680
come from how can this all be I don't

1416
01:09:06,519 --> 01:09:03,290
think they're any closer than anybody

1417
01:09:08,979 --> 01:09:06,529
else so let's assume that they're

1418
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:08,989
somewhat earnest in what they're putting

1419
01:09:14,170 --> 01:09:12,080
forth do you say that's a valid approach

1420
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:14,180
to just go in there and grab what you

1421
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:16,250
can and just say okay let's just try and

1422
01:09:21,579 --> 01:09:18,650
engineer it from a technology standpoint

1423
01:09:23,919 --> 01:09:21,589
and not worry about what you're finding

1424
01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:23,929
in the jungles of the

1425
01:09:28,450 --> 01:09:26,150
Amazon with your wife and being

1426
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:28,460
possessed by spirits and owl spirits run

1427
01:09:34,450 --> 01:09:32,330
the whole world is it is it valid just

1428
01:09:37,390 --> 01:09:34,460
to is and I'm overstating that okay

1429
01:09:41,559 --> 01:09:37,400
forgive me but is it valid to just take

1430
01:09:45,220 --> 01:09:41,569
a wrench in trying when when I ran the

1431
01:09:47,620 --> 01:09:45,230
study thirty years ago one of the

1432
01:09:50,169 --> 01:09:47,630
aspirant things we put forever I again

1433
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:50,179
was in the Defense Department and trying

1434
01:09:57,070 --> 01:09:53,690
to make a case to get funded but didn't

1435
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:57,080
but a the reality of it and why you

1436
01:10:02,830 --> 01:10:00,800
would want to do it one of my were two

1437
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:02,840
issues ones threat you know you got

1438
01:10:07,540 --> 01:10:04,190
something flying around you don't

1439
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:07,550
understand the other was advanced in

1440
01:10:13,780 --> 01:10:10,489
technology that whether or not you

1441
01:10:17,740 --> 01:10:13,790
actually had your hands on hardware or

1442
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:17,750
something like that that if you just

1443
01:10:24,370 --> 01:10:20,239
understood the principles for instance

1444
01:10:27,070 --> 01:10:24,380
we saw the avionics rapid acceleration

1445
01:10:29,050 --> 01:10:27,080
g-force turns that you know nobody could

1446
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:29,060
survive of all of these have been

1447
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:32,449
reported again at least since the

1448
01:10:40,780 --> 01:10:36,230
forties that if we had an understanding

1449
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:40,790
of what would be required to do that but

1450
01:10:46,660 --> 01:10:43,449
there was a potential for a leapfrog in

1451
01:10:51,910 --> 01:10:46,670
technology we're not successful but the

1452
01:10:54,910 --> 01:10:51,920
approach is totally valid so again let's

1453
01:10:57,370 --> 01:10:54,920
just oppose that with the spiritual

1454
01:11:00,490 --> 01:10:57,380
actions and the spiritual questions

1455
01:11:04,570 --> 01:11:00,500
because fundamentally spirituality comes

1456
01:11:07,510 --> 01:11:04,580
down to action in the same way that

1457
01:11:10,750 --> 01:11:07,520
military operations come down to action

1458
01:11:14,110 --> 01:11:10,760
and what is right action what is non

1459
01:11:18,130 --> 01:11:14,120
action what difference does action make

1460
01:11:20,410 --> 01:11:18,140
in this spiritual realm in which we find

1461
01:11:22,750 --> 01:11:20,420
ourselves you many times in the book

1462
01:11:24,850 --> 01:11:22,760
allude to the idea that we are spiritual

1463
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:24,860
beings living a physical life I mean do

1464
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:26,150
you allude to that several times in the

1465
01:11:30,250 --> 01:11:27,440
book and I think it's kind of at the

1466
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:30,260
core of what your seemed to be about

1467
01:11:37,630 --> 01:11:35,120
there does for a lot of folks seem to be

1468
01:11:40,090 --> 01:11:37,640
a contradiction in terms of

1469
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:40,100
what it takes to be a soldier and what

1470
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:43,850
it takes to the work threats and what it

1471
01:11:47,770 --> 01:11:45,650
takes to live a spiritual life I mean

1472
01:11:51,220 --> 01:11:47,780
it's a big question but it's the

1473
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:51,230
question but the concepts of the warrior

1474
01:11:58,480 --> 01:11:56,330
monk has been around for eons tell us

1475
01:12:00,280 --> 01:11:58,490
tell us you you wrote a book on that

1476
01:12:02,970 --> 01:12:00,290
this has been your life I mean so

1477
01:12:08,710 --> 01:12:02,980
expound on that well know that the

1478
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:08,720
concepts that you you know that you come

1479
01:12:14,710 --> 01:12:11,530
to understand these things and you do

1480
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:14,720
encounter paradoxes I mean I must say

1481
01:12:24,340 --> 01:12:20,570
that I'm going to get into some of the

1482
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:24,350
personal aspects of this but I mean I go

1483
01:12:33,940 --> 01:12:28,010
back to Vietnam because I was there is

1484
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:33,950
also in Afghanistan in 2003 and looking

1485
01:12:39,790 --> 01:12:36,170
at the physical actions there and

1486
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:39,800
questions become how do you take life if

1487
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:43,040
you believe that you know all things are

1488
01:12:50,380 --> 01:12:46,610
interconnected and that you know what

1489
01:12:56,290 --> 01:12:50,390
life is worth living and as I mentioned

1490
01:13:00,100 --> 01:12:56,300
is that being a spiritual being um it is

1491
01:13:06,460 --> 01:13:00,110
still difficult to explain I think what

1492
01:13:09,670 --> 01:13:06,470
we see is a spiritual evolution that

1493
01:13:14,260 --> 01:13:09,680
takes time with the realities that faces

1494
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:14,270
individual I might mention that the you

1495
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:16,730
know we spent a huge amount of money and

1496
01:13:22,510 --> 01:13:20,210
we have over the last 16 years exposed a

1497
01:13:27,070 --> 01:13:22,520
lot of people to combat but I think we

1498
01:13:29,440 --> 01:13:27,080
do not begin to understand the cost of

1499
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:29,450
that not dollars and cents but the

1500
01:13:37,810 --> 01:13:34,610
impact of people who have been exposed

1501
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:37,820
to violent conflict who have inflicted

1502
01:13:46,660 --> 01:13:42,290
violent conflict um what I can tell you

1503
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:46,670
is that over time those things do come

1504
01:13:56,670 --> 01:13:54,420
I think that's probably true what this

1505
01:13:58,590 --> 01:13:56,680
is going to be a very fast moving hour

1506
01:14:01,800 --> 01:13:58,600
and there's a couple of other points

1507
01:14:05,060 --> 01:14:01,810
that we just have to talk about in terms

1508
01:14:09,690 --> 01:14:05,070
of stories you have to share with people

1509
01:14:12,420 --> 01:14:09,700
your experience bending spoons with Uri

1510
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:12,430
Geller and the story about the spoon

1511
01:14:16,350 --> 01:14:14,410
that I presume you still have in your

1512
01:14:17,580 --> 01:14:16,360
office at least you described that you

1513
01:14:21,300 --> 01:14:17,590
still have in your office from the book

1514
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:21,310
can you tell that whole story sure I'm

1515
01:14:27,750 --> 01:14:25,090
looking at the spoon as we speak what

1516
01:14:30,150 --> 01:14:27,760
had happened and I might mention regular

1517
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:30,160
as you know did the forward to the book

1518
01:14:37,050 --> 01:14:34,570
and I've known him for decades but he

1519
01:14:40,380 --> 01:14:37,060
had come to the u.s. I measure this is

1520
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:40,390
still a bad old days ie Soviet Union was

1521
01:14:50,370 --> 01:14:44,650
still intact breaking up a bit but I'm

1522
01:14:52,380 --> 01:14:50,380
guessing 8 1987 timeframe and he had

1523
01:14:55,140 --> 01:14:52,390
come in and what he wanted to talk about

1524
01:14:58,710 --> 01:14:55,150
being Jewish was the plight of the

1525
01:15:02,250 --> 01:14:58,720
Soviet Jews not being allowed to

1526
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:02,260
immigrate to Israel and what we could do

1527
01:15:08,430 --> 01:15:05,530
to help that so he arranged a meeting

1528
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:08,440
this is in the US Capitol and there

1529
01:15:18,410 --> 01:15:10,930
actually is a skip there which is a

1530
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:18,420
secured facility and present were

1531
01:15:25,530 --> 01:15:22,930
Senators Congressmen mostly staffers and

1532
01:15:29,070 --> 01:15:25,540
I knew this was going to take place so I

1533
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:29,080
was sitting maybe four feet I was in the

1534
01:15:34,890 --> 01:15:32,320
very front row right dead set and in

1535
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:34,900
front of him and of course everybody he

1536
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:37,210
was talking again about his area of

1537
01:15:43,830 --> 01:15:41,410
interest with how to we help Jewish

1538
01:15:47,220 --> 01:15:43,840
immigration and everybody said Ben

1539
01:15:50,910 --> 01:15:47,230
something Ben something and he said well

1540
01:15:54,090 --> 01:15:50,920
I haven't got anything so they had to go

1541
01:15:57,300 --> 01:15:54,100
out to the guard and get a spoon that

1542
01:15:59,670 --> 01:15:57,310
came out of his coffee cup the reason

1543
01:16:01,440 --> 01:15:59,680
that's significant is there's no way in

1544
01:16:05,070 --> 01:16:01,450
hell that he had you know any

1545
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:05,080
preparation of the spoon itself

1546
01:16:11,339 --> 01:16:08,290
held it with the bowl inverted with his

1547
01:16:14,339 --> 01:16:11,349
thumb and forefinger brought it one you

1548
01:16:18,510 --> 01:16:14,349
know his forefinger the right hand down

1549
01:16:20,959 --> 01:16:18,520
and the it not grabbed the knackered

1550
01:16:24,359 --> 01:16:20,969
grabbed the entire spoon at all and

1551
01:16:28,859 --> 01:16:24,369
Stroke it gently and the spoon bent the

1552
01:16:30,930 --> 01:16:28,869
handle bent upwards he then placed it on

1553
01:16:34,620 --> 01:16:30,940
the back of the chair that was nearby

1554
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:34,630
and went on talking and the spoon

1555
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:36,610
continued to bend while he's talking

1556
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:38,530
about other things and which direction

1557
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:41,530
did it Bend John he was bending upwards

1558
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:44,730
bending upwards so it's kind of defying

1559
01:16:48,810 --> 01:16:47,050
gravity in addition to everything else

1560
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:48,820
it's doing it's defying gravity as its

1561
01:16:53,879 --> 01:16:50,409
bending but that's the point

1562
01:16:55,919 --> 01:16:53,889
and again there's no time did he did the

1563
01:16:57,450 --> 01:16:55,929
neck of the spoon disappear cuz that's

1564
01:17:00,450 --> 01:16:57,460
one of the things you can look for for

1565
01:17:04,020 --> 01:17:00,460
fakes by the way they said no we yes we

1566
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:04,030
had other magicians who were in fact and

1567
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:06,610
involved in the studies Doug Henning I

1568
01:17:13,669 --> 01:17:10,210
mentioned him in the book but had

1569
01:17:16,379 --> 01:17:13,679
world-class magicians involved in this

1570
01:17:18,540 --> 01:17:16,389
and said it's been man fell on the floor

1571
01:17:21,950 --> 01:17:18,550
and ended up in my pocket

1572
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:21,960
yeah that's pretty remarkable so

1573
01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:26,080
connected to this whole thing with Uri

1574
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:29,110
Geller as your association with the

1575
01:17:35,490 --> 01:17:32,050
Stargate program your association with

1576
01:17:40,020 --> 01:17:35,500
Joe mechanical who's been on this show

1577
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:40,030
and is psychics by 0:01 a lot of

1578
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:42,610
interesting stories associated with with

1579
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:46,210
that and related to that is the whole

1580
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:49,449
men who stare at goats Jon Ronson thing

1581
01:17:55,530 --> 01:17:52,330
who goes on to interviews you and goes

1582
01:17:58,649 --> 01:17:55,540
on to make this kind of wacky movie so

1583
01:18:02,790 --> 01:17:58,659
many questions reject their that Icke

1584
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:02,800
still claimed he never interviewed me he

1585
01:18:07,260 --> 01:18:05,199
was in fact present and I went on the

1586
01:18:11,970 --> 01:18:07,270
air when I first heard him talking about

1587
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:11,980
this he had to go back and check my

1588
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:14,290
records and what had happened there was

1589
01:18:20,209 --> 01:18:17,280
a British filmmaker but Amazon Sark

1590
01:18:23,540 --> 01:18:20,219
and who had called me and arranged for

1591
01:18:25,430 --> 01:18:23,550
the interview and came and John was

1592
01:18:29,450 --> 01:18:25,440
doing the interview and actually filming

1593
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:29,460
it and it turns out Ronson was there and

1594
01:18:35,779 --> 01:18:32,610
as Jimmy chana and I said what he was

1595
01:18:38,299 --> 01:18:35,789
more like a grip certainly not the key

1596
01:18:41,510 --> 01:18:38,309
guy you may have asked a question or two

1597
01:18:45,109 --> 01:18:41,520
but saying he interviewed me is just

1598
01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:45,119
totally incorrect but that's one of the

1599
01:18:50,740 --> 01:18:47,280
more interesting questions related to

1600
01:18:54,080 --> 01:18:50,750
the whole area of information

1601
01:18:56,810 --> 01:18:54,090
misinformation disinformation why does

1602
01:18:58,220 --> 01:18:56,820
this film get made why is it made the

1603
01:19:00,589 --> 01:18:58,230
way that it is why is the information

1604
01:19:02,930 --> 01:19:00,599
portrayed the way that it is I mean

1605
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:02,940
there's a million questions that no one

1606
01:19:07,459 --> 01:19:04,770
even asks but but it seems to me very

1607
01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:07,469
convenient that the whole project gets

1608
01:19:12,979 --> 01:19:10,110
put off isn't this kind of laugh it off

1609
01:19:15,399 --> 01:19:12,989
kind of way when you spent your career

1610
01:19:19,549 --> 01:19:15,409
or a good part of your career in

1611
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:19,559
non-lethal weapons connected to very

1612
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:23,610
strange but very real paranormal

1613
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:27,360
phenomenon that that were connected to

1614
01:19:32,419 --> 01:19:28,650
this kind of thing do you have any

1615
01:19:33,919 --> 01:19:32,429
thoughts related to one either setting

1616
01:19:35,419 --> 01:19:33,929
the record straight in terms of what

1617
01:19:38,089 --> 01:19:35,429
really happened in terms of these

1618
01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:38,099
non-lethal weapons or number two why it

1619
01:19:44,180 --> 01:19:40,739
was portrayed the way it was in at that

1620
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:44,190
time okay I did not see a relationship

1621
01:19:51,620 --> 01:19:47,520
between non-lethal weapons which I was

1622
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:51,630
integrally involved and the size

1623
01:20:00,740 --> 01:19:57,210
phenomena just clarify so I doesn't look

1624
01:20:02,180 --> 01:20:00,750
like I'm going off on a wild tangent

1625
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:02,190
because that's how you were drawn in you

1626
01:20:05,359 --> 01:20:03,690
were saying hey we're trying to get

1627
01:20:06,799 --> 01:20:05,369
these guys to stare at goats and kill

1628
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:06,809
the goat and then later you say well the

1629
01:20:11,899 --> 01:20:08,880
goat actually received a karate chop so

1630
01:20:14,299 --> 01:20:11,909
this project that you were in was at

1631
01:20:18,370 --> 01:20:14,309
least tangentially connected was it not

1632
01:20:20,750 --> 01:20:18,380
two weapons weaponization of different

1633
01:20:22,370 --> 01:20:20,760
paranormal phenomena that would kind of

1634
01:20:24,529 --> 01:20:22,380
fall into that category or is that not

1635
01:20:25,540 --> 01:20:24,539
true please clarify that would not be

1636
01:20:31,530 --> 01:20:25,550
accurate

1637
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:31,540
all that that's not in any way connected

1638
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:37,250
what had happened even timewise there's

1639
01:20:46,899 --> 01:20:44,570
a bit of a disconnect the by the way for

1640
01:20:49,959 --> 01:20:46,909
anyone interested on my website and just

1641
01:20:52,810 --> 01:20:49,969
google my name I have a complete

1642
01:20:54,310 --> 01:20:52,820
description of goats and what's real and

1643
01:20:59,520 --> 01:20:54,320
what's not real

1644
01:21:05,799 --> 01:20:59,530
but now the problem was that Ronson a

1645
01:21:08,700 --> 01:21:05,809
was writing basically a comedy and he

1646
01:21:11,649 --> 01:21:08,710
took a tiny amount of truth and

1647
01:21:14,979 --> 01:21:11,659
extrapolated greatly and then they made

1648
01:21:20,169 --> 01:21:14,989
the movie and I have talked to a sloth

1649
01:21:22,780 --> 01:21:20,179
who was Clooney so guy who works with

1650
01:21:25,180 --> 01:21:22,790
producing all the time about it they

1651
01:21:27,490 --> 01:21:25,190
said how they knew that though they just

1652
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:27,500
did it because it was funny not because

1653
01:21:33,220 --> 01:21:30,050
there's any amount of truth and I point

1654
01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:33,230
out that goats did die no doubt about

1655
01:21:38,049 --> 01:21:35,510
that and I had actually seen what had

1656
01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:38,059
happened yes there's a goat lab at Fort

1657
01:21:45,939 --> 01:21:41,510
Bragg it is used for Special Forces

1658
01:21:49,330 --> 01:21:45,949
medic the idea there is that they want

1659
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:49,340
to shoot at the end of the training you

1660
01:21:55,330 --> 01:21:52,010
actually get to treat a gunshot wound

1661
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:55,340
patient in this case a goat so that the

1662
01:22:04,359 --> 01:21:57,170
first gunshot wound that you actually

1663
01:22:07,330 --> 01:22:04,369
see is not on the battlefield and a long

1664
01:22:10,990 --> 01:22:07,340
story probably have time for how the it

1665
01:22:15,580 --> 01:22:11,000
all came about but what happened was dim

1666
01:22:19,330 --> 01:22:15,590
mak IE the death touch was applied as

1667
01:22:22,830 --> 01:22:19,340
opposed to any notion that goats died by

1668
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:22,840
staring that's just completely false

1669
01:22:29,739 --> 01:22:28,010
but again glorious loss saw this as as a

1670
01:22:32,859 --> 01:22:29,749
comedy and

1671
01:22:36,819 --> 01:22:32,869
as they went running with it from there

1672
01:22:40,569 --> 01:22:36,829
okay I mean I'm happy to leave it there

1673
01:22:42,639 --> 01:22:40,579
and happy to accept the correction it

1674
01:22:46,949 --> 01:22:42,649
does seem to me over and over again we

1675
01:22:52,599 --> 01:22:46,959
get this perception being put forth by

1676
01:22:54,789 --> 01:22:52,609
Hollywood by the media that turns things

1677
01:22:57,339 --> 01:22:54,799
that are really very serious into this

1678
01:22:59,769 --> 01:22:57,349
kind of laugh it off oh you believe that

1679
01:23:01,449 --> 01:22:59,779
kind of bunk kind of thing and this

1680
01:23:03,369 --> 01:23:01,459
seems that's an important point because

1681
01:23:07,119 --> 01:23:03,379
it's not just them you find this in the

1682
01:23:09,609 --> 01:23:07,129
media as well you know when they talk

1683
01:23:12,159 --> 01:23:09,619
about these stories of various phenomena

1684
01:23:13,389 --> 01:23:12,169
UFOs or whatnot and they tend to end up

1685
01:23:16,029 --> 01:23:13,399
with a hohoho

1686
01:23:16,649 --> 01:23:16,039
or or you don't really believe that do

1687
01:23:19,569 --> 01:23:16,659
you

1688
01:23:22,089 --> 01:23:19,579
right so there was there was a reality

1689
01:23:24,489 --> 01:23:22,099
to it it didn't come close to what was

1690
01:23:31,179 --> 01:23:24,499
portrayed in the film but you don't

1691
01:23:33,879 --> 01:23:31,189
necessarily see any grand plan to that

1692
01:23:35,469 --> 01:23:33,889
misinformation a misinformation campaign

1693
01:23:37,359 --> 01:23:35,479
or anything like that more as just

1694
01:23:39,249 --> 01:23:37,369
somebody who saw an opportunity to play

1695
01:23:41,649 --> 01:23:39,259
something for a laugh is that what

1696
01:23:47,079 --> 01:23:41,659
you're saying that's exactly right

1697
01:23:50,079 --> 01:23:47,089
okay let's talk about alien abduction

1698
01:23:53,799 --> 01:23:50,089
John Mack is somebody you mentioned

1699
01:23:56,109 --> 01:23:53,809
several times in the book being a

1700
01:23:58,989 --> 01:23:56,119
Harvard researcher who got very

1701
01:24:03,809 --> 01:23:58,999
interested in alien abductions found a

1702
01:24:06,939 --> 01:24:03,819
reality to them and then found a deeper

1703
01:24:10,779 --> 01:24:06,949
spiritually transformative reality to

1704
01:24:13,419 --> 01:24:10,789
the alien abduction phenomena that has

1705
01:24:16,989 --> 01:24:13,429
been confirmed by researchers since then

1706
01:24:20,229 --> 01:24:16,999
most recently my buddy ray Hernandez at

1707
01:24:23,139 --> 01:24:20,239
the Edgar Mitchell experience or

1708
01:24:25,929 --> 01:24:23,149
organization that a large scale study

1709
01:24:29,199 --> 01:24:25,939
and found similar findings I'm sorry did

1710
01:24:32,139 --> 01:24:29,209
you want to interject something I was

1711
01:24:36,909 --> 01:24:32,149
down at Ray's house earlier this month

1712
01:24:41,370 --> 01:24:36,919
actually fantastic so I do know him and

1713
01:24:45,570 --> 01:24:42,899
you won't go further with the

1714
01:24:47,310 --> 01:24:45,580
introduction but the point was and I

1715
01:24:50,570 --> 01:24:47,320
have written a chapter for their

1716
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:50,580
forthcoming book looking at the

1717
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:53,770
integration of many of these phenomena

1718
01:24:58,860 --> 01:24:56,530
but he points out that as they say the

1719
01:25:02,419 --> 01:24:58,870
things that start off seemingly kind of

1720
01:25:07,169 --> 01:25:02,429
scary later do seem to have a

1721
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:07,179
transformative positive response by the

1722
01:25:13,010 --> 01:25:10,000
individuals but it often takes a while

1723
01:25:17,070 --> 01:25:13,020
for them to psychologically integrate

1724
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:17,080
those experiences and put in the future

1725
01:25:21,780 --> 01:25:19,690
context well there is another side of

1726
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:21,790
that too that I think definitely needs

1727
01:25:25,709 --> 01:25:23,530
to be brought on the table and talked

1728
01:25:29,570 --> 01:25:25,719
about I've interviewed several times

1729
01:25:31,709 --> 01:25:29,580
David Jacobs of course a abduction

1730
01:25:34,110 --> 01:25:31,719
researcher who's come to a very

1731
01:25:37,340 --> 01:25:34,120
different conclusion he claims he's come

1732
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:37,350
to that conclusion independently and

1733
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:39,250
scientifically and he does have a

1734
01:25:44,010 --> 01:25:42,010
scientific background he claims along

1735
01:25:47,669 --> 01:25:44,020
with other abduction researchers that

1736
01:25:50,669 --> 01:25:47,679
these experiences might be characterized

1737
01:25:53,820 --> 01:25:50,679
by some as transformative spiritually

1738
01:25:57,870 --> 01:25:53,830
but for many they are true abductions in

1739
01:26:00,510 --> 01:25:57,880
every sense of the word and you have

1740
01:26:03,590 --> 01:26:00,520
been associated with having knowledge of

1741
01:26:06,770 --> 01:26:03,600
that experience in in particular

1742
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:06,780
knowledge of knowledge of military

1743
01:26:10,890 --> 01:26:09,130
involvement in some of those abductions

1744
01:26:15,030 --> 01:26:10,900
and as definitely want to give you a

1745
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:15,040
chance to clarify that into you know

1746
01:26:20,629 --> 01:26:18,130
just come out and tell us are you aware

1747
01:26:25,260 --> 01:26:20,639
of any government involvement in

1748
01:26:29,910 --> 01:26:25,270
programs related to alien abductions

1749
01:26:34,470 --> 01:26:29,920
yeah no my home my lab thing in my view

1750
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:34,480
is totally ridiculous and I have written

1751
01:26:44,930 --> 01:26:41,650
to this home from Austria who was one of

1752
01:26:48,570 --> 01:26:44,940
the major proponents and if you look at

1753
01:26:51,419 --> 01:26:48,580
strictly the requirements that would be

1754
01:26:52,870 --> 01:26:51,429
necessary the resources that you'd have

1755
01:26:59,290 --> 01:26:52,880
to apply to this

1756
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,300
it is ill just beyond ridiculous there's

1757
01:27:05,050 --> 01:27:01,760
no way that you could take that number

1758
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:05,060
resort when you look at the downsizing

1759
01:27:11,350 --> 01:27:08,330
has gone on in the military and how you

1760
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:11,360
would apply resources you would be

1761
01:27:16,959 --> 01:27:13,850
involving thousands and thousands of

1762
01:27:19,540 --> 01:27:16,969
people if you tended to believe that I

1763
01:27:21,820 --> 01:27:19,550
do think that some of these experiences

1764
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:21,830
are certainly real there's probably

1765
01:27:27,610 --> 01:27:24,770
others that are purely psychological as

1766
01:27:30,399 --> 01:27:27,620
well but returning to a comment I made

1767
01:27:33,419 --> 01:27:30,409
earlier these have been reported

1768
01:27:38,169 --> 01:27:33,429
throughout the entirety of human history

1769
01:27:40,660 --> 01:27:38,179
all over the globe every culture and oh

1770
01:27:43,660 --> 01:27:40,670
by the way that they happen to come in

1771
01:27:47,050 --> 01:27:43,670
on little silver discs or something akin

1772
01:27:50,830 --> 01:27:47,060
to that is actually a fairly new wrinkle

1773
01:27:54,879 --> 01:27:50,840
to the interaction and abduction

1774
01:27:57,030 --> 01:27:54,889
phenomenon again globally reported okay

1775
01:28:01,090 --> 01:27:57,040
related to that another thing to either

1776
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:01,100
clear up or - I don't know add any

1777
01:28:07,270 --> 01:28:04,090
information - you are consistently John

1778
01:28:11,169 --> 01:28:07,280
mentioned as being a member of the

1779
01:28:15,790 --> 01:28:11,179
aviary group actually having a code name

1780
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:15,800
you're laughing so I assume that anyone

1781
01:28:21,729 --> 01:28:18,560
can find that's actually true but not

1782
01:28:24,580 --> 01:28:21,739
the aviary group this is something that

1783
01:28:30,180 --> 01:28:24,590
was created and I can never remember

1784
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:30,190
what the name was but he'll and I and

1785
01:28:39,580 --> 01:28:36,530
Scott Jones were at a meeting in here in

1786
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:39,590
Ohio at the time and they gave us aviary

1787
01:28:48,010 --> 01:28:44,409
names and supposedly it was just so that

1788
01:28:51,850 --> 01:28:48,020
they could talk freely on the telephone

1789
01:28:53,620 --> 01:28:51,860
and use names that you know but we're

1790
01:28:54,580 --> 01:28:53,630
being intercepted nobody would know who

1791
01:28:57,879 --> 01:28:54,590
they're talking about

1792
01:29:01,419 --> 01:28:57,889
but there is no aviary per se or groups

1793
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:01,429
that get together or anything like that

1794
01:29:05,770 --> 01:29:04,130
you haven't brought up mj-12 I've been

1795
01:29:09,610 --> 01:29:05,780
accused of running that

1796
01:29:11,230 --> 01:29:09,620
I'll say if true would you send them a

1797
01:29:15,090 --> 01:29:11,240
message could have been missing my

1798
01:29:17,290 --> 01:29:15,100
paycheck for you know from the beginning

1799
01:29:19,890 --> 01:29:17,300
fair enough as long as we're going

1800
01:29:23,290 --> 01:29:19,900
through a list of things to clarify

1801
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:23,300
misinformation disinformation Paul

1802
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:26,170
bennewitz people associated with

1803
01:29:32,380 --> 01:29:29,810
projects to distort or mind-control

1804
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:32,390
folks any knowledge of that at any time

1805
01:29:41,380 --> 01:29:37,090
any awareness of those programs running

1806
01:29:45,370 --> 01:29:41,390
no no the individuals involved my

1807
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:45,380
position on that is if they did what

1808
01:29:52,630 --> 01:29:48,250
they said they did they belong in jail

1809
01:29:56,740 --> 01:29:52,640
absolutely illegal activities that as

1810
01:29:59,380 --> 01:29:56,750
they are described would have no

1811
01:30:03,340 --> 01:29:59,390
tolerance for them or you know should it

1812
01:30:07,660 --> 01:30:03,350
be tolerated fair enough

1813
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:07,670
let's return then to the UFOs you tell

1814
01:30:13,620 --> 01:30:10,850
an amazing story in great detail in the

1815
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:13,630
book reality denied about your

1816
01:30:20,500 --> 01:30:16,610
first-hand experience with with Chris

1817
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:20,510
Bledsoe his alien encounter his alien

1818
01:30:26,620 --> 01:30:24,320
experience that leads to a healing of

1819
01:30:28,150 --> 01:30:26,630
physical healing we're not just a

1820
01:30:30,130 --> 01:30:28,160
spiritual healing although maybe that

1821
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:30,140
was involved but the guy's got Crohn's

1822
01:30:35,860 --> 01:30:32,330
disease and he doesn't have it after the

1823
01:30:38,410 --> 01:30:35,870
encounter Rhea Hernandez who you we both

1824
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:38,420
talked about an indigo has a very very

1825
01:30:42,430 --> 01:30:40,370
similar story with his wife and their

1826
01:30:44,890 --> 01:30:42,440
dog the family dog that had a similar

1827
01:30:47,530 --> 01:30:44,900
kind of amazing healing where the dog

1828
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:47,540
was dying and couldn't walk and the dog

1829
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:51,050
lives I mean let's talk about UFOs and

1830
01:30:55,660 --> 01:30:53,090
healing in this amazing experience that

1831
01:30:57,640 --> 01:30:55,670
you saw with Chris Bledsoe well with

1832
01:31:00,550 --> 01:30:57,650
crime I mentioned I was down with ray

1833
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:00,560
his wife also came in and extract

1834
01:31:07,870 --> 01:31:03,290
described to us the incident that

1835
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:07,880
happened and it was quite amazing in the

1836
01:31:11,790 --> 01:31:10,250
thing about Chris's case if I had just

1837
01:31:16,109 --> 01:31:11,800
listened to this

1838
01:31:19,589 --> 01:31:16,119
was beyond incredulous I mean all of the

1839
01:31:23,100 --> 01:31:19,599
things that happen but what convinced me

1840
01:31:25,350 --> 01:31:23,110
was that had heard the case I'd

1841
01:31:29,339 --> 01:31:25,360
interviewed him in great length

1842
01:31:32,700 --> 01:31:29,349
went down to visit him and the family by

1843
01:31:34,470 --> 01:31:32,710
the way is just lovely and have kind of

1844
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:34,480
come together because they've been

1845
01:31:41,899 --> 01:31:37,570
rather precipitously attacked by the UFO

1846
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:41,909
community what happened was that we were

1847
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:45,090
went down the Cape Fear River for the

1848
01:31:52,140 --> 01:31:49,510
incipient incidents that occurred he

1849
01:31:54,990 --> 01:31:52,150
described to us what had happened and

1850
01:31:59,189 --> 01:31:55,000
physically it was getting early evening

1851
01:32:01,770 --> 01:31:59,199
but certainly dark and so we returned

1852
01:32:05,399 --> 01:32:01,780
Victoria was with me along with his

1853
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:05,409
daughter Emily and we went back up to

1854
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:07,690
the car just couple of hundred meters

1855
01:32:14,970 --> 01:32:12,730
from the from the river and women got in

1856
01:32:15,510 --> 01:32:14,980
the car and Chris and I were standing

1857
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:15,520
there

1858
01:32:21,810 --> 01:32:18,130
describing pointing out were worth

1859
01:32:24,540 --> 01:32:21,820
certain things happened and all of a

1860
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:24,550
sudden he turned to me says oh I think

1861
01:32:32,700 --> 01:32:27,610
they're here and within about ten

1862
01:32:37,770 --> 01:32:32,710
seconds this thing pops into view above

1863
01:32:40,260 --> 01:32:37,780
us and when zipping off again it was a

1864
01:32:44,339 --> 01:32:40,270
temporal relationship between him saying

1865
01:32:46,169 --> 01:32:44,349
oh I think I think they're here and the

1866
01:32:48,060 --> 01:32:46,179
appearance of this object it wasn't

1867
01:32:51,180 --> 01:32:48,070
something as flew of it was not this

1868
01:32:54,240 --> 01:32:51,190
identification it lasted only a few

1869
01:32:55,799 --> 01:32:54,250
seconds but that and then we went back

1870
01:32:58,709 --> 01:32:55,809
to the house and there were some other

1871
01:33:01,560 --> 01:32:58,719
things that occurred near a kind of a

1872
01:33:04,740 --> 01:33:01,570
mystical tree that's in the backyard

1873
01:33:07,410 --> 01:33:04,750
there but it was again a personal

1874
01:33:10,490 --> 01:33:07,420
experience that tends to lead me to

1875
01:33:13,589 --> 01:33:10,500
believe you know the other more

1876
01:33:16,470 --> 01:33:13,599
fantastic aspects of it but again this

1877
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:16,480
is one where when you want positive as

1878
01:33:22,950 --> 01:33:19,210
you mentioned he had Crohn's disease for

1879
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:22,960
12 years and what he said was the next

1880
01:33:27,090 --> 01:33:25,450
day there is a risk

1881
01:33:30,630 --> 01:33:27,100
over a number of the things that

1882
01:33:33,090 --> 01:33:30,640
happened but the following day he's

1883
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:33,100
going around he goes he realizes he

1884
01:33:38,400 --> 01:33:35,770
hasn't taken his medicine but he's not

1885
01:33:41,300 --> 01:33:38,410
exhibiting any of the symptoms of

1886
01:33:46,140 --> 01:33:41,310
Crohn's which is terribly debilitating

1887
01:33:50,210 --> 01:33:46,150
for many people yeah quite a quite a

1888
01:33:53,190 --> 01:33:50,220
fantastic story John but were do people

1889
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:53,200
go when they read this book what's been

1890
01:33:57,750 --> 01:33:55,930
your experience so far how is it how is

1891
01:33:59,820 --> 01:33:57,760
it hitting people is it having the

1892
01:34:02,210 --> 01:33:59,830
effect that you wanted to have and what

1893
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:02,220
defect did you want it to have on folks

1894
01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:09,730
well I just really is ill I can see an

1895
01:34:16,650 --> 01:34:13,510
upfront it is challenging our worldview

1896
01:34:19,260 --> 01:34:16,660
and certainly the scientific community

1897
01:34:21,690 --> 01:34:19,270
because we have not talked to a number

1898
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:21,700
of the issues there where we had

1899
01:34:29,550 --> 01:34:24,370
physical incidents were things that just

1900
01:34:32,490 --> 01:34:29,560
cannot happen absolutely did happen with

1901
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:32,500
a reindeer shaman and northern Mongolia

1902
01:34:39,060 --> 01:34:36,010
or Siberian border things occurring

1903
01:34:42,450 --> 01:34:39,070
would talk about the Crystal Skull and I

1904
01:34:45,450 --> 01:34:42,460
would saw the mitchell-hedges Crystal

1905
01:34:48,450 --> 01:34:45,460
Skull which is probably a fake and yet

1906
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:48,460
we had these phenomenal kinds of things

1907
01:34:56,790 --> 01:34:51,370
happen that had physical interactions

1908
01:34:59,550 --> 01:34:56,800
and what I say is that our laws of

1909
01:35:02,760 --> 01:34:59,560
science if you will are you know quite

1910
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:02,770
misleading and things that were you know

1911
01:35:07,860 --> 01:35:05,530
science or maybe guideposts not to say

1912
01:35:11,070 --> 01:35:07,870
the science hasn't been beneficial

1913
01:35:14,850 --> 01:35:11,080
because in many ways it has it is just

1914
01:35:16,890 --> 01:35:14,860
really incomplete and we have a problem

1915
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:16,900
with many particularly physical

1916
01:35:23,940 --> 01:35:20,290
scientists who refuse to look at data

1917
01:35:27,090 --> 01:35:23,950
that lie outside of their preconceived

1918
01:35:29,550 --> 01:35:27,100
ideas I really like the way that you

1919
01:35:33,270 --> 01:35:29,560
phrase that and the emphasis that you

1920
01:35:36,780 --> 01:35:33,280
put on really incomplete in the kind of

1921
01:35:38,750 --> 01:35:36,790
that's quite a well well played

1922
01:35:40,970 --> 01:35:38,760
understatement there

1923
01:35:43,940 --> 01:35:40,980
jump where is the best place for people

1924
01:35:46,850 --> 01:35:43,950
to find out not only about the book but

1925
01:35:50,450 --> 01:35:46,860
about any other thoughts you have in

1926
01:35:53,630 --> 01:35:50,460
terms of related to this topic in new

1927
01:35:55,910 --> 01:35:53,640
discoveries you might be making well

1928
01:35:58,580 --> 01:35:55,920
again I've got quite a bit particularly

1929
01:36:02,690 --> 01:35:58,590
covering some of our travels and back up

1930
01:36:06,490 --> 01:36:02,700
data for the book reality denied best

1931
01:36:09,110 --> 01:36:06,500
way is to go to my website rather than

1932
01:36:15,550 --> 01:36:09,120
remembering that just google my name

1933
01:36:19,670 --> 01:36:15,560
John B Alexander and it'll it'll pop up

1934
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:19,680
John I know this is incredibly kind of

1935
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:21,090
intrusive so a lot of people wouldn't

1936
01:36:26,300 --> 01:36:22,890
want to do it but have you ever thought

1937
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:26,310
of doing I don't know like tours or

1938
01:36:30,170 --> 01:36:27,930
something like that and on some of these

1939
01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:30,180
trips that you're on have you ever

1940
01:36:35,930 --> 01:36:33,330
thought about hosting people or helping

1941
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:35,940
people have these kind of experiences

1942
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:38,730
that you've had on a personal basis well

1943
01:36:44,630 --> 01:36:42,690
you've got to remember that you know you

1944
01:36:48,710 --> 01:36:44,640
say many of these were totally

1945
01:36:52,220 --> 01:36:48,720
unexpected we once made the mistake of

1946
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:52,230
trying to organize a trip and did that

1947
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:54,960
and my temperament is not such when

1948
01:36:59,600 --> 01:36:57,840
putting up with people who you know a

1949
01:37:01,340 --> 01:36:59,610
lot of these are fairly rough their

1950
01:37:02,870 --> 01:37:01,350
knees and they you know they're

1951
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:02,880
complaining about the rain or the cold

1952
01:37:09,890 --> 01:37:06,890
or the food or they let just this is not

1953
01:37:14,180 --> 01:37:09,900
something of interest to me doesn't jive

1954
01:37:19,010 --> 01:37:14,190
with an ex Vietnam Green Beret taura

1955
01:37:21,700 --> 01:37:19,020
duty okay so folks again the title of

1956
01:37:24,140 --> 01:37:21,710
the book is reality denied firsthand

1957
01:37:27,980 --> 01:37:24,150
experiences with things that can't

1958
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:27,990
happen but did our guest has been dr.

1959
01:37:35,060 --> 01:37:31,970
John Alexander this is a book that is

1960
01:37:39,190 --> 01:37:35,070
really a must have I mean the accounts

1961
01:37:41,510 --> 01:37:39,200
the history that it encompasses is just

1962
01:37:43,430 --> 01:37:41,520
just not to be missed and I don't know

1963
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:43,440
where else you could go to find it

1964
01:37:47,330 --> 01:37:45,330
there's no one else who's had these kind

1965
01:37:49,610 --> 01:37:47,340
of experiences over this length of time

1966
01:37:52,129 --> 01:37:49,620
and has written them all down in one

1967
01:37:53,629 --> 01:37:52,139
place John it's been a great pleasure

1968
01:37:56,209 --> 01:37:53,639
nann are talking to you and i really

1969
01:37:59,899 --> 01:37:56,219
thank you for the time thank you very

1970
01:38:02,419 --> 01:37:59,909
much thanks again to John Alexander for

1971
01:38:04,580 --> 01:38:02,429
joining me today on skeptic oak the one

1972
01:38:08,839 --> 01:38:04,590
question I guess I tee up from this

1973
01:38:11,810 --> 01:38:08,849
interview what do you make of the

1974
01:38:13,759 --> 01:38:11,820
warrior monk is it real in the sense

1975
01:38:16,989 --> 01:38:13,769
that I was talking about is there a need

1976
01:38:21,169 --> 01:38:16,999
for a warrior among those who are

1977
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:21,179
seeking truth enlightenment peace do we

1978
01:38:25,339 --> 01:38:23,010
also have to balance that with the

1979
01:38:29,209 --> 01:38:25,349
warrior are we willing to accept

1980
01:38:31,819 --> 01:38:29,219
everything that the warrior must do to

1981
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:31,829
be a warrior are we willing to accept

1982
01:38:39,529 --> 01:38:35,130
the idea that you can't handle the truth

1983
01:38:42,620 --> 01:38:39,539
or even worse you don't deserve the

1984
01:38:46,759 --> 01:38:42,630
truth I think that comes along with the

1985
01:38:48,319 --> 01:38:46,769
warrior monk bargain doesn't it so let

1986
01:38:50,389 --> 01:38:48,329
me know your thoughts on that of course

1987
01:38:54,949 --> 01:38:50,399
the place to do it is through this

1988
01:38:58,009 --> 01:38:54,959
skeptical website s ke p TI ke o calm or

1989
01:38:59,889 --> 01:38:58,019
you can find all our previous shows you

1990
01:39:03,529 --> 01:38:59,899
can also check us out on youtube i'm

1991
01:39:05,449 --> 01:39:03,539
interested in video and producing more

1992
01:39:09,919 --> 01:39:05,459
videos to go along with these podcasts

1993
01:39:12,409 --> 01:39:09,929
so you'll find a video of this on the

1994
01:39:14,020 --> 01:39:12,419
website as well it's kind of a mixed the

1995
01:39:17,389 --> 01:39:14,030
open you'll see it once you get there

1996
01:39:19,339 --> 01:39:17,399
anyways check out that as well jump over

1997
01:39:21,229 --> 01:39:19,349
to skeptical forum join the conversation

1998
01:39:23,839 --> 01:39:21,239
there drop me an email comment wherever

1999
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:23,849
you want stay in touch

2000
01:39:27,649 --> 01:39:26,249
let's connect on this stuff it's so

2001
01:39:30,949 --> 01:39:27,659
great having you along for the ride

2002
01:39:31,429 --> 01:39:30,959
until next time take care and bye for

2003
01:39:33,379 --> 01:39:31,439
now

2004
01:39:35,270 --> 01:39:33,389
so thanks for watching this video if it

2005
01:39:37,850 --> 01:39:35,280
wasn't really a video but just an audio

2006
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:37,860
stored as a video I apologize but

2007
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:39,449
there's more videos out there as well

2008
01:39:43,429 --> 01:39:41,610
but please check out the skeptical web

2009
01:39:44,569 --> 01:39:43,439
site you can see it here we cover a lot

2010
01:39:47,389 --> 01:39:44,579
of different stuff you might be

2011
01:39:50,719 --> 01:39:47,399
interested in relating to controversial

2012
01:39:53,419 --> 01:39:50,729
science and spirituality a lot of shows

2013
01:39:56,270 --> 01:39:53,429
up there over 350 of them are so all

2014
01:39:58,580 --> 01:39:56,280
free all available for downloads so do

2015
01:40:13,260 --> 01:39:58,590
check it out